Younger builders

[nichzimmerman]

Mark,
It sounds like you're in about the same boat as me, so I'll chime in. I am 24 yrs old, have a wife and baby, and have a very small aviation budget. I am VERY fortunate to have a dad who financed my CFI rating and also my Kitfox 2 which I keep in my garage and tow with a towbar. At the risk of being shunned, I will confess that my dream airplane is actually a Bearhawk because it can haul a family and baggage, and I can SCRATCH BUILD, which means I can spend a couple hundred bucks on enough aluminum to keep me busy for 6 months, and that leaves me just enough money to top off the gas tank in the Kitfox. When the Bearhawk nears completion (in about 5 years) I hope to sell the kitfox to pay for some used avionics and FWF. So that is my method of keeping me in the cockpit until my dream plane takes form.

I'm not aware of any scratch built airplanes that are as fun as the kitfox, but there's something to be said for their affordability over their kit-built brethern.

Oh, and I am also VERY fortunate to have a wife who not only tolerates my madness, but has actually deburred more aluminum parts than I have!

Nick

[Geowitz]

31 years old here(actually bought the kit when I was 29... sorry , just bragging now). Got a Kitfox IV(used, barely started kit) about a year and a half ago and am on schedule to have it flying this coming spring/summer. Everything has been done in my regular 2 car garage. Covering, paint... everything, which has kept the cost probably cheaper than most. See my profile for picture albums. I've been building model planes for pretty much all of my life. Also worked on many projects throughout my life in construction, auto mechanics, heavy machinery, etc. I would definitely call myself a jack of all trades, but master of none. I'll be the first to admit I'm not the best at anything, but I can certainly get it all done with relatively good results. I just like building things. A kitfox is relatively easy to build and most end up being great flyers. I think the main difference between the show winners and the beaters is just patience and attention to detail. Sounds cliche, I know, but it's the truth. Taking your time aligning things, measuring twice(10 to 20 times in some instances), and just double checking everything is really the hardest part, but it does make all the difference. You really can learn the skills as you go. Be ready to reject some your own work though. Have others look at your work too. If you finish something and it nags at you that it's not satisfactory. Redo it and chock it up to a learning experience. Sometimes I would totally destroy a somewhat OK(but structurally important) assembly just to make sure I redid it better(Maybe I have a little O.C.D. - I think that may be a requirement for building a plane actually, lol). After getting as far as I have now I know I could build another Kitfox twice as good in half the time though.

As far as financing, well I guess everyone's different, but in addition to savings I took out a little on my home equity line of credit, but promised myself I'd pay it back in a definite expedited time frame and I stuck to it. I wanted to make sure the plane was payed for before the first flight and it is. I agree with John - Savings is where it's at, but for me I just had to borrow a little extra and it wasn't a stretch by any means to hammer away at the principle with extra payments each month. I also don't have any car payments, credit card balances, student loans, etc either. I've always been very aware of my finances. All I have is the mortgage(15 year as well John , sorry...bragging again). I'm prepared to sacrifice some things like having a newer truck and I make sure all the bills are taken care of first. Do everything to maximize your financial success. It will cost more than you originally thought. This is definitely not a great time economically, so the obvious warnings apply - don't stretch yourself thin and don't EVER forget that financial issues may require you to sell it. This is after all, a hobby and not a necessity. Having a suitable permanent work area devoted to the plane is essential also. Not sure if you rent or own your home, but stability is a must. There do seem to be a lot of good deals on Barnstormers lately for kits. Keep saving and keep an eye out, but please make sure my property values don't go down because you got too deep into a plane and got foreclosed on. Sorry, but not enough people say that. Sure, there are exceptions to every rule, but generally, building a plane isn't cheap and it can get you into trouble.

Another thing I wanted to make sure that didn't happen to me was for it never to get done. So many people buy a kit and never finish it. You HAVE to motivate yourself to do something at least every couple of days. Even if it's a little sanding here or there, making a template or a bracket, or even cleaning your work area. It all adds up and helps to keep you motivated. You will burn out at some or several points. The next task may seem so tedious that you can't even walk into the work area, but I promise once you get moving and get done with each part you'll be saying to yourself, "that wasn't so hard!". I luckily have a wife who was in nursing school for most of my main build time up till now so she had to do a lot of studying which freed me up quite a bit. She's also very patient with my need to build and is excited about one day getting to fly in it.

Overall, make sure you like to build. The desire to do something doesn't mean your qualified to do it, but it is a great first step.

[Chewie]

Thank you all SO MUCH for your feedback, regardless of age. I can imagine the costs add up and I appreciate your honesty. The build would be a challenge too and some of you had excellent ideas on how to make it manageable and to stay motivated. Just a few comments below...

You talking physical age or maturity level, if it is the latter then I still qualify

- I'm flattered!

...As far as getting the skills it's kind of like making out with your first girlfriend

- What if she wasn't my girlfriend?!



Breaking it down into manageable investments is something I hear a lot and makes sense given the current economic picture.

... Join a local chapter off EAA. Get involved.
Take some industrial arts classes at the local junior college.
Enroll in EAA SportAir workshops when they come to a town near you.

John - I will definitely look for EAA chapters around here; I do have a membership. I also sent in an application last week to volunteer at the antique aeroplane and auto museum here in town and will hopefully rub shoulders with a few restoration experts. Hopefully that will pan out!

[pretty much everything you said!]

"Geowitz", great stuff. Thanks for sharing all that. My wife and I live pretty simply and don't even have a TV - we prefer spending our time and money on fewer things that matter more. We don't want to fill our lives with junk.

For me, to build and fly my own airplane would be so much more than the material value. It would be one of the larger milestones in my life aside from getting married, and if I do something this big I want it to last a while. That's another reason I want to start early, when I still have my health and the future is still AHEAD of us and not BEHIND us. Hard to explain in few words. I'm that guy who has the potential and background to get hands on with a project like this, but just never got the experience. I fly a foot-launched powered paraglider to get my air fix but I can't share that experience with anyone, and that frustrates me. I've seen these youtube videos of guys taking their 10-yr old daughters for their first ride in a kitfox and that makes my eyes tear up every time.

Thanks all again for your comments. In the mean time I'll keep poking around and learn all I can.

Mark

[Esser]

Hello Mark, I am 24 and just ordered a kit. I actually jsut called up John and Debra to delay the delivery due to some stuff that's popping up with work. So I guess I am not actively building yet but should be soon. I got my license through Air Cadets for free when I was 17 so I never had to pay for that. I am very lucky that I amable to finance it as I have a very good job, I hold no debt with the exception being my mortgage, and I had a decent chunk saved up. My property that I own has a large shop so I don't have to worry about renting additional space to worry about that cost. Since buying the kit will take most of my savings I am waiting to buy the engine and avionics until I am at that stage so I can save my pennies a bit. My plan is to stay ahead of the game with the money and if I run out I have an empty line of credit that I can purchase some items on. But my wishful goal is to have everything paid for by the time its air worthy. I realize this isnt applicable to everyone but I say if you can figure out a way to scrape by and build it then do it. I talked myself over a period of a few months by telling myself that I am only young once. Don't forget when you are building to factor in the price of tools. If you are young like me your shop might not be complete. I hope you are able to do it.

Josh

[cap01]

good point josh , waiting on the avionics and engine . you dont need the clock ticking on the warantees while your stuff is waiting in the boxes to be installed . also , who knows , there may be a bunch of better stuff available by the time your ready to install it . good luck and have fun , it will be worth it when its completed .

[rogerh12]

You might wait on the landing gear order too. With it installed on my model-4, the tail would hit my garage celling (though it is a Tri-gear). I just made ups some short wood gear with heafty lawn mower wheels to move the fuse around during work, and it turned out to be a great idea. A space saver too as my wood gear was very narrow.

The spring gear is also expensive and maybe you could do the same, and put off buying the gear until later in the project?


Roger

[Dave S]

Mark,

I am not a younger builder; however, I WANTED to build back when I was 20, so I think I have a couple valid points that can help you along your way. Make your dream come true as soon as you can. When you are 150 years old on your deathbed I guarantee you will NEVER say "Gee I wish I hadn't built that plane and had all that fun".....guaranteed you will never say that.

Not everybody came from a family of aviators and builders - in my case, I am the first and only pilot and first and only builder in the family. First took flying lessons in college - got the bug to build at the same time. That was in the 1960's.......

I did get 20 hours in back when a Cessna 140 rented for $8 an hour and the instructor cost an additional $4 per hour. What stopped me from completing my certificate and from building at the time was money. (crap - I could have bought the 140 for $2000 at the time and it was barely 15 years old!) Aside from not coming from a family of aviators and builders, I didn't come from a family with much money either and had to pay my way 100% through college. Second issue with building was a place to build - didn't have one at the time that was guaranteed to stay available. Enough money became available for me to complete my pilot's certificate in 1990 and I started building our 'fox in 2005 in the garage and basement (yes, I measured the basement door first!) with a completion in 2008. Now we are flying and enjoying every minute of it even if I am about to retire early next year.

My lesson is you need to think about the two issues of cost and a place to build. You can mitigate cost in may ways and the 'fox is one of the best ways to do that to start with. Many folks on the list have suggested ways reduce the cost, you have a tremendous asset with your age - you have the luxury of time in your favor so it is entirely possible to fly soon by picking up a less expensive 'fox (kit sitting around or one of the early models completed but used) consider it your first plane and have lots of time till you become old enough to have enough money to jeopardize your children's inheritance by building the greatest 'fox ever.

Sincerely,

Dave S
KF7 Trigear
912ULS Warp

[Esser]

Roger, good idea about the gear. I already ordered it but the gear is the only thing that wont get through my doubel doors so it might be good to mock up some narrower gear for a temp solution til the end.

Mark, another way to save a few bucks is used/referbished equipment. Rotec(North American Rotax dealer) Sells factory rebuilt zero timed 912ULS for much cheaper than you can buy a brand new one. And it has all brand new specs to the engine. Check out barnstormers.com for used avionics and engines. A lot of people decide to upgrade there panels, engines, props etc. If you know the right questions to ask you can find good deals.