Pioneer Control Grips

[dothedr3w]

Has anyone used these with success in their Kitfox? I could see some people taking issue with the fact it favours a single hand instead of being ambidextrous like a bike grip, but man does it look comfortable! They've got some ambi versions coming soon as well.

In speaking with another member who used the Infinity Aerospace HOTAS, there was conflict with the instrument panel with the stick fully forward that required more tinkering than I think I'm comfortable with, so I wonder if this would be any different?

[bbs428]

Those grips look really nice! Never seen them before.

I had to mess around with the stick height a bit to get my grip to fit within the control parameters and not hit the panel.

Mine is the CS-8. Price was right and they work great. They are comfortable but they are not ambidextrous, and they lock your hand into a certain style of gripping the stick which could bother some pilots.

IMG_2301.jpg

For about the same $$, the Ray Allen G205's are ambidextrous and have the flush buttons on top. They look comfortable.
I do like having the trim functions on top and being able to vary your grip on the stick.

G205 stick grip.jpg

[Kitfox Pilot]

I used the ray allens. I later had to come back and cut the stick off to let it go just under the dash to get the right throw for down elevator. If your staying on asphalt this won't be a problem if you don't have enough down elevator but for sand bar flying and getting the tail up you need to go a bit under the dash. The taller the grip is it also makes it harder to get in and out of the plane. Just my 2cents. Harlan

[dothedr3w]

It's a shame those Ray Allen grips use that awful foam; it reminds me of those cheapo bike grips from the 90s that have you blisters if you even look at them. It's a shame, because otherwise the grips look like they'd fit the bill very well.

[airlina]

It's a shame those Ray Allen grips use that awful foam; it reminds me of those cheapo bike grips from the 90s that have you blisters if you even look at them. It's a shame, because otherwise the grips look like they'd fit the bill very well.

Have used the Ray Allen foam grips for over 20 years on my Series 5 and the foam looks the same as when installed. As others have stated you'll find that the Kitfox flies with fingertips or a very light grip pressure , a heavy handed grip pressure is not required. Bruce N199CL

[efwd]

It's a shame those Ray Allen grips use that awful foam; it reminds me of those cheapo bike grips from the 90s that have you blisters if you even look at them. It's a shame, because otherwise the grips look like they'd fit the bill very well.

Precisely why I removed mine. They get crispy long before they fail. How has Ray Allen not realized this after this many years.

[n85ae]

Ray Allen foam, 20+ years and the foam still looks and feels like new ... Maybe my sweat is acting as a UV inhibitor
and protecting the foam?

If they ever go bad, I'll just replace them with the same foam. I have flown a couple planes with the fancy grips, and
to me they feel cumbersome and not to my liking at all.

Jeff

[VictorV]

The parts I used are:
Ray Allen G405 Stick Grip: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=41355
Ray Allen REL-1 Servo Relay Deck: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...lickkey=852685
Garmin GSA-28 Servo: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...h_11-11450.php
TCW Safety Trim Booster: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=17761
Kitfox-supplied Pitch Trim Servo

Note that the Pitch Servo (Garmin) and Pitch Trim Servo (Kitfox-supplied) are 2 different devices. This design only applies the devices listed above.
The system is based on the G3x Autopilot. The key problem that has to be solved is to convert the stick grip button signal (depressed=signal to ground)
to the reverse polarity signal needed by the pitch trim servo.

The key points that drive the design are:

1) In the Ray Allen grip when a button is depressed it connects the signal to ground.
2) The Ray Allen grip buttons can only handle 1 amp and the pitch trim servo draws 2.5 amps which is
why the servo booster is needed.
3) The pitch servo has trim outputs so that the autopilot can control the trim as well.
4) The trim outputs from the Ray Allen servo deck are combined with the autopilot trim commands
in the Garmin pitch servo.
5) The combined pitch servo trim outputs are then fed into the TCW Safety Trim Booster to create the signal to
drive the pitch trim servo.

The simplified diagram is:

Screen Shot 2024-04-30 at 10.26.41 AM.jpg

I skipped trying to figure out how to use the Kitfox-supplied trim switch along with the stick grip switches because
it seemed too complicated to implement.

If you're not using the Garmin Autopilot/Servos you can connect the output of the servo relay deck directly to the
TCW Safety Trim Booster.

The installation instructions for the 4 devices provide enough info to create the wiring diagram. I don't have one
that I can attach unfortunately. If you need more detailed help let me know and I'd be happy to help out. Since
I have not flown my KF yet I don't know for sure if everything is correct but the trim up/down buttons on the
stick grips are working as expected.

Victor

[dothedr3w]

The parts I used are:
Ray Allen G405 Stick Grip: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=41355
Ray Allen REL-1 Servo Relay Deck: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...lickkey=852685
Garmin GSA-28 Servo: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...h_11-11450.php
TCW Safety Trim Booster: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=17761
Kitfox-supplied Pitch Trim Servo

Note that the Pitch Servo (Garmin) and Pitch Trim Servo (Kitfox-supplied) are 2 different devices. This design only applies the devices listed above.
The system is based on the G3x Autopilot. The key problem that has to be solved is to convert the stick grip button signal (depressed=signal to ground)
to the reverse polarity signal needed by the pitch trim servo.

The key points that drive the design are:

1) In the Ray Allen grip when a button is depressed it connects the signal to ground.
2) The Ray Allen grip buttons can only handle 1 amp and the pitch trim servo draws 2.5 amps which is
why the servo booster is needed.
3) The pitch servo has trim outputs so that the autopilot can control the trim as well.
4) The trim outputs from the Ray Allen servo deck are combined with the autopilot trim commands
in the Garmin pitch servo.
5) The combined pitch servo trim outputs are then fed into the TCW Safety Trim Booster to create the signal to
drive the pitch trim servo.

The simplified diagram is:

Screen Shot 2024-04-30 at 10.26.41 AM.jpg

I skipped trying to figure out how to use the Kitfox-supplied trim switch along with the stick grip switches because
it seemed too complicated to implement.

If you're not using the Garmin Autopilot/Servos you can connect the output of the servo relay deck directly to the
TCW Safety Trim Booster.

The installation instructions for the 4 devices provide enough info to create the wiring diagram. I don't have one
that I can attach unfortunately. If you need more detailed help let me know and I'd be happy to help out. Since
I have not flown my KF yet I don't know for sure if everything is correct but the trim up/down buttons on the
stick grips are working as expected.

Victor

This is perfect man. I'm going to copy your design here, only difference is substituting the Ray Allen relay for the VPX, otherwise same same.

[jiott]

I personally wouldn't want the fancy grips that lock you into a certain grip style. I would guess 90+% of my flying is with a very relaxed finger grip just lightly urging the stick one way or another. A full hand grip is very rare, mostly in bad turbulence.