Questions and feedback requested on Panel Switch layout and Wig Wag function

[olsonCCR]

Hi,
I apologize. I originally posted yesterday my questions re: my panel design on Drew's thread. Starting my own thread here.

I'm in the final stages of designing my panel before purchasing avionics and getting my panel cut. I've gone back and forth for months and would love a second set of eyes re: the switch layout and if I'm missing anything.

I do plan to stick w Dynon and use the Fastrak Trays on back of my panel to house most modules which can't be remotely located to keep wiring challenges to a minimum. My layout is designed the way it is to allow for future space to add a G5 and GPS175 (IFR) if I ever wanted it (but unlikely). I chose 2 screens, so I can fly from either seat. A little concerned about weight compared w a 10" screen and G5 backup only but I do like the symmetrical look.
I am running a ground adjustable DUC Prop.

Here are my questions I'm hoping to get clarification on.

1. Any recommendation on the round black switch order for my lights and Cabin Heat? I imagine always turning on my Nav lights, so am changing the order (from left to right): to:“Nav”-“Strobe”-"Cabin Heat”-”Landing (and/ or)WigWag”-“Taxi". On the ground with a hand on the control stick, I imagine turning on/off Landing and taxi lights, so am placing on right.

2.. Is WigWag function usually a dedicated switch? I just emailed Kit Fox but haven't heard back yet due to the weekend. I am unclear if the Wig Wag function is used with the Aero LED Pulsar or Sunbeam light, and if the Wig Wag function needs a separate switch or if it's wired with the Landing light or another? In addition to the lighting package purchased from Kit Fox, I installed two KC Off-Road Lights for Taxi lights.

3. I am changing my push start button as well, and may modify the Kit Fox Logo but haven't decided yet.

Lastly, I did purchase a Cowl Flap control knob which I am locating to right of Throttle. No room for labeling but if I can, I will have it laser etched on end of knob.

Anything I missed? Any constructive criticism or recommendations would be great!

VFR 2 GREY(1).jpg

Thanks,

Kevin Olson
Building KitFox S7 STi (Rotax 915)

[Redline]

Hi Kevin,
One thing to consider is that once sitting in the seats, the lip on the Dynon HDX obscures labels that are above any black rocker switches located underneath it. I found this out the hard way.

Your mock-up looks great.

[olsonCCR]

Thanks. Yeah, until I get the HDX screens, it's difficult to know exactly how much the label will be obscured. My original solution was to use lighted round switches with a dimmer but don't want to over complicate things either.
I'll mock up the switches with lettering below to see what it looks like.
Thanks Redline.

Hi Kevin,
One thing to consider is that once sitting in the seats, the lip on the Dynon HDX obscures labels that are above any black rocker switches located underneath it. I found this out the hard way.

Your mock-up looks great.

[jiott]

Regarding an avionics master switch, I put one in mine, but the only things wired thru it are the radio, intercom, and transponder. My Dynon Skyview is NOT wired thru it because at engine start you want to immediately monitor oil pressure and rpm, and not wait for your efis to boot up because all my engine instruments are on the efis screen. Dynon said they are OK with this.

[dothedr3w]

Regarding an avionics master switch, I put one in mine, but the only things wired thru it are the radio, intercom, and transponder. My Dynon Skyview is NOT wired thru it because at engine start you want to immediately monitor oil pressure and rpm, and not wait for your efis to boot up because all my engine instruments are on the efis screen. Dynon said they are OK with this.

Kevin, I may be able to save you a step; I asked their tech support specialists this question earlier today:

Is there any danger in having everything in the Dynon system power on with the master? Radios, autopilot, etc.

The response:

No worries. Some engines (like the Rotax) need monitoring during start so the Dynon is designed to be powered up prior to and during engine start.

He doesn't specifically address each item in the avionics suite, but I think its safe to say...that it's safe lol.

Also I spoke to Corey, he's going design my panel as well! Thanks for the suggestion man!

[Shadowrider]

How are you planning on controlling wigwag? I see no breakers so I assume the VPX? If so you can wigwag any two circuits. So, there is no wigwag switch. You can have a time delay also. I have mine set for 30 seconds delay. That way if its night, and when I am on short final, I turn the lights off then back on and the lights will stay steady for 30 seconds. Or, I can go into the G3x and selected menu under VPX and have the option to turn wigwag steady indefinitely if your doing night flying T&GS. I have my Landing lights to taxi lights wigwag. More than 30 seconds and over 40mph and they will wigwag. So I just turn on the lights and the VPX takes care of the wigwag. Hope this helps.

Nevermind....I forgot AFS has there own electronic breakers so I think you need a wigwag switch?

[Eric Page]

No legend for the switch (Start Power/Battery Backup?) just below the fuel pump switches.

Avionics Master switch unnecessary.

[olsonCCR]

Eric,
I copied the location of the Avionics/Master switches, and the momentary starter switch from Kit Fox's panel but didn't know what to call it. I have room to label it, as I already moved the Fuel PumpA/B switches up slightly to align with the top of the Baro Module. I didn't realize no master switch is necessary. Thanks! I'll look into this more. Great feedback.

No legend for the switch (Start Power/Battery Backup?) just below the fuel pump switches.

Avionics Master switch unnecessary.

[Eric Page]

I didn't realize no master switch is necessary.

Sorry, it sounds like I may have confused things by using the word "Master." Just to clarify, it's the Avionics switch that's unnecessary. Avionics switches are a carryover from an earlier time when electronics weren't very robust and needed protection from voltage sag during engine start and "spikes" at starter cutout. Modern avionics are designed to shrug off those things and we now know to put a flyback diode across the starter contactor's coil to stop the spike. Today the Avionics switch just creates an additional step at start-up and shut-down, and is a single point of failure for the entire panel.

When you talk to Dynon, ask them if an Avionics Master (there's that word again!) switch is necessary to protect their products. I'm confident that they'll say no. In order for Dynon to put their gear in type certificated aircraft, they had to show the FAA that they're designed and tested to satisfy DO-160, including Sections 16 and 17.

Check out this thread on the Dynon forum, and notice the answer from "Dynon Staff" in post #4.

[olsonCCR]

Thanks Eric. I really appreciate the detail! If I can cut any unnecessary steps or single points of failure out of my panel, I would definitely like to. I'll reach out to Dynon this week, to see what they say.

Thanks again.

Kevin

Sorry, it sounds like I may have confused things by using the word "Master." Just to clarify, it's the Avionics switch that's unnecessary. Avionics switches are a carryover from an earlier time when electronics weren't very robust and needed protection from voltage sag during engine start and "spikes" at starter cutout. Modern avionics are designed to shrug off those things and we now know to put a flyback diode across the starter contactor's coil to stop the spike. Today the Avionics switch just creates an additional step at start-up and shut-down, and is a single point of failure for the entire panel.

When you talk to Dynon, ask them if an Avionics Master (there's that word again!) switch is necessary to protect their products. I'm confident that they'll say no. In order for Dynon to put their gear in type certificated aircraft, they had to show the FAA that they're designed and tested to satisfy DO-160, including Sections 16 and 17.

Check out this thread on the Dynon forum, and notice the answer from "Dynon Staff" in post #4.