"Since original Certification..." Editorial

[84KF]

"......the only place you will find documentation of any take off weight for an experimental aircraft is in the aircraft log book where the completion of the phase one testing is documented with the gross weight when the V speeds were determined."

That may be true for a more recent aircraft..., but my Operating Limitations do not require such information to be included in the logs. Only the statement "I certify that this aircraft is controllable through its normal range of speeds and throughout all maneuvers to be executed; and the aircrafthas no hazardous operating characteristics or design features."

(To all) Feel free to attempt to find any reference to any weight (limitation or anything else) in the paperwork for N84KF in the attached pdf documents. Also, any requirement in the documents or any FAR to enter in the logs such information at any time.

[t j]

I'll take your word for it.

[wildirishtime]

Steve/Tom/All: Lets not make this a ****ing match, I think we all have lots to gain by understanding this better.... having never filed for airworthiness on a build (I've only restored planes never done one from scratch) I do not know what all paperwork is/was submitted with my Kitfox 5. Steve: does your logbook have a 'tested through xxx lbs' entry? Do you have a dataplate showing max gross?

On a related note, if max gross weight was NOT supplied to the FAA, and if it is NOT in a logbook, is it only in the builder-or-owner-developed weight and balance and no where else?

~Wild

[Dorsal]

I was required to supply a weight and balance sheet to the FAA showing operational envelope and max weight. I have no knowledge if this is common or generally required.

[wildirishtime]

Dorsal did they keep a copy of it, or just want you to demonstrate you had it?

[Dorsal]

Dorsal did they keep a copy of it, or just want you to demonstrate you had it?

Yes, it was sent in with the rest of my paperwork.

This is the wording they wanted in my Logbook

“I certify that the prescribed flight test hours have been completed and the aircraft is controllable throughout its normal range of speeds and throughout all maneuvers to be executed, has no hazardous operating characteristics or design features, and is safe for operation. The following aircraft operating data has been demonstrated during the flight testing: speeds Vso ______, Vx ______, and Vy ______, and the weight ______ and CG location ______ at which they were obtained.”

I do not believe this inherently limits the max weight of the aircraft but as I stated before that was also submitted. I did my testing at 1400 but listed max at 1550. Again this is just what I was asked to do.

[wildirishtime]

I do not believe this inherently limits the max weight of the aircraft but as I stated before that was also submitted. I did my testing at 1400 but listed max at 1550.

It may not LIMIT your max weight, but does this statement in your logbook not prevent you from Light Sport operations since it clearly was, at least once, flown in excess of 1320?


Steve etc: The Light Sport Aviation Branch told me, and I quote, "The definition itself prevents any aircraft from being modified to meet the definition because it states "since original certification". It doesn't matter why it doesn't meet the definition on or any day after the original paperwork was hung, it can not be operated as a light sport aircraft."

In Steve's case, he has never defined a set weight in his logbook or elsewhere, however Dorsal has (maybe not at his own doing but still has). Seems Steve can shimmy around a gross weight question regarding Light Sport, but Dorsal can not (without risk). Am I right?

~Wild

[84KF]

" Steve: does your logbook have a 'tested through xxx lbs' entry?"

No..., why would it? This was mentioned and explaind in the previous post.

"Do you have a dataplate showing max gross?"

Again, no..., and it is not required by the FARs.


"I do not know what all paperwork is/was submitted with my Kitfox 5."

You can get them from the FAA here.
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certific...craft_records/

[wildirishtime]

Just verifying Steve. I have my paperwork on order at this time they are very slow.

If your logbook DID have an entry in there saying 'tested to max gross 1400lbs' for example..... am I correct that would no longer be considered a Light Sport capable aircraft due to the fact it's exceeded weight at least once 'since original certification'?