I used the ray allens. I later had to come back and cut the stick off to let it go just under the dash to get the right throw for down elevator. If your staying on asphalt this won't be a problem if you don't have enough down elevator but for sand bar flying and getting the tail up you need to go a bit under the dash. The taller the grip is it also makes it harder to get in and out of the plane. Just my 2cents. Harlan