Glass panel questions;

[av8rps]

I could use some help from the group determining what to do with my panel;

I have an older black and white MGL STRATOMASTER in a plane I want to make a new instrument panel for and am considering upgrading to something colored, and newer. But the more I research, the more confused I'm getting. There are not only a whole bunch of choices, but also a multitude of approaches (e.g. standalone MFD, I Pad with Stratus and Foreflight, an iLevil with additional software, and/or using a seperate engine instrumentation display like an EIS from Grand Rapids, etc.)

Also, it seems that figuring out the real cost of all you will need by the time you have it all figured out is a huge guessing game since almost no one sells a complete, easy to understand and install package. So any info telling me what to expect for final cost would also be really helpful.

I really would like the ability to have synthetic vision and gps all in one unit I can put in the center of my panel so it can be seen equally from both seats. My current thoughts are using an I Pad with a Stratus 2 and an annual subscription to Foreflight. I can do that for around $1200 plus the $200 annual subscription. But then I need a seperate engine information system.

My next thought is buying a $1300 iLevil 3 AW along with the Foreflight subscripion and a Grand Rapids EIS adapter that lets all the engine monitoring go through the I pad also. I'm guessing that will still be under 2k total plus annual fee.

I would like to hard wire and hide under the panel the ahrs unit (I hate loose crap all over these already small cockpits, been there done that...), but it seems that might be an issue because of tube and fabric construction causing signal loss? (Or so I read). Anyone have any experience with that?

But after thinking about all that, am I better off just biting the bullet and spending the big bucks to do a Dynon or MGL all-in-one?

I will admit that not only do I not like an airplane without at least some old fashioned steam gauges, but I also have a hard time spending 10 grand for a dual screen set up like seems to be more and more common. In my head I still like to think homebuilts are supposed to be inexpensive. So I also have to admit that I really have't researched the all in one units as much as the previous options. But maybe I'm sellimg myself short and therefore need to remain open minded.

I really like some of the great features of the new glass panels, and am not knocking those that opt for the best. But I'm thinking there has to be some middle ground on all this. And maybe I just don't know what I don't know?

So anything you guys can do to steer me in the right diection I would appreciate.

[bumsteer]

Can't be of any help in your choice, but I totally agree about the number of choices. At Airventure, you could walk into any of the 4 hangars, throw a dart and probably hit someone selling some type of glaas panel display. I will admit the all-in-one displays are what I'm considering. Best of luck with your decision.

Rick

[Norm]

I would also like something a little nicer but don't have any budget so I will stay with what I have for now. One that I have always been curious about is the SkyLab Flybox. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri5GB0ywQQA
I can never find much more that this video so I am thinking it was a failed attemp at bring glass to the ultralight community. Does anyone have any more info on this interesting attempt?

BTW my GR EIS blew up when I was doing the install so I went back to the steam guages I had on hand. Darn......

[WWhunter]

I have been looking at the same thing as you. I have dreaming of doing a total stripping of my panel and upgrading to glass. My main focus though is for a split screen. The one half will have engine management, with the typical flight instruments on the other side of the screen. Navigation these days is easily down via phone/tablet/GPS so I should have everything covered.

I posed the question on the EAA site on what type of unit would be best and basically admonished for asking! Since my question also mentioned that my flying was mostly low and slow, the responses were that I didn't need 'gadgets'.

I really like the Demon and Advance brand units but have also read good thing about MGL and GRT. I think Paul Dye just installed one of the lesser known brands in one of his planes. If a smart guy like him, uses one, it should be ok.

Oh, I should also mention that I read somewhere that the updates can get expensive on certain units and are free on other units. I believe this was for the mapping features.

[efwd]

Oh yes!. I had not considered the cost of updates and sales people won't mention it either. My Garmin panels will be costing me in the neighborhood of about $600 a year! Crrraaapp! There are less expensive options but you forgo stuff like airport maps and sectionals etc etc.
Eddie

[DesertFox4]

Paul, as much as I would have loved to put two beautiful Dynon or MGL full featured panels in my new Kitfox 7SS, I too have a limited budget and opted for the MGL Lite in the Explorer version which is 8.5". I didn't have panel space for a 10" screen. The MGL Lite has most of the full featured virsion so it will do everything I need.
My goal was a dedicated screen with IPad back up with Stratus wifi AHRS. I've found the Ipad to be unreliable here in the Phoenix heat for a primary flight instrument. It shuts down way too quickly in warm enviornments from over heat. Also in any turbulence it is not easy to precisely control your screen inputs.
I haven't fired up the new Exlporer Lite yet but am close. I will keep my Garmin Aera 500 which also has traffic and weather. I purchase the Ipad Air 2 and the Stratus 2b for my model four so I already had that setup.
The MGL uses an Rdac box to hook all your engine sensors to and it mounts on the engine side of the firewall with a can bus cable that carries all engine info. through the firewall to the iEFIS screen. Neet set up and simple to wire. The 3 sizes of MGL Lite screens also have the auto pilot brains inside, just buy the servos. The sreen also can control transponders and radio frequency changing. I did purchase the MGL V6 radio with built in intercom also.
See photo below of my panel set up.
IMG_2733.jpg

[jiott]

Also, it seems that figuring out the real cost of all you will need by the time you have it all figured out is a huge guessing game since almost no one sells a complete, easy to understand and install package. So any info telling me what to expect for final cost would also be really helpful.

I hate to sound like a Dynon salesman, but it IS a complete, easy to understand and install system. Most everything is an optional add-on module (box) that can be added later if you choose, even radio and intercom. Transponder and GPS is all ADS-B 2020 compliant. A costly but nice option for those leery of wiring is their wiring interface panel which includes circuit protection and is basically plug and play with pre-made wiring harnesses. All this is also true of Advanced Flight Systems (owned by Dynon).

[Danzer1]

A costly but nice option for those leery of wiring is their wiring interface panel which includes circuit protection and is basically plug and play with pre-made wiring harnesses.

Jim, have been following Dynon for quite some time for my upcoming build. Not sure what you are referring to here - can you provide a link?

If you are inferring the AFS - ACM (Advanced Control Module) - info to date as released by Dynon - that module is only available if you buy a complete Quickbuild panel. A completely done panel ready to install in the aircraft. Yes it is costly and yes very plug and play as it is all done for you.

Let us know if you're referring to something different or have info the rest of us don't have.

Another option close to that would be Vertical Powers VP-X for the home panel builder.

[Av8r3400]

I am absolutely ecstatic about my Dynon D180 in the Mangy.

I have full flight instruments and engine EIS in one box. Small, light and it was surprisingly easy to install.

It is older technology compared to some of the other offerings. It is also a fraction of the cost of their SkyView system. I don't mind having a separate GPS (Garmin Aera 500) and Comm radio (iCom A220).

[av8rps]

Wow, you guys sure deliver when asked! I have so much good info now I'm thinking I will probably have to regroup / do more research. Consequently I do have a few more questions;

- For iPad users, would a fan on the backside eliminate overheating issues?
- Do iPads also turn off when too cold out too? (Like my iphone does)
(I live in Wisconsin so winter is probably more of an issue than our relatively mild summers)

- It appears Dynon has the best reputation from all I've read, but is also more costly than some others. How about annual update costs? Is it easy to do?

- Do any of the all in one units (Dynon, MGL, Advanced, etc) uffer from heat and cold like the iPad does?

For the record, I just want a VFR aircraft. But because I am thinking about using it for some occasional 500 to 1500 mile trips in the future, I really would like an "only in an emergency get out of jail option" available if I really needed it. A flight instructor friend of mine tested the synthetic vision on foreflight and said it would be a great tool for that scenario. He put it much higher than an autopilot, but of course restated only for an emergency use to get you out of trouble, not to encouage VFR into IFR conditions, which I completely agree with.

I've flown these airplanes so long I hate to even admit how seldom I use instruments. But if traveling and being more mission focused on getting to my destination, then I feel having a few more tools available to use if I need them would be a valuable addition. And even though I didn't think I'd ever be saying this, I'm even kicking around a simple autopilot. But because I just love hand flying my plane, that's a bit further down my list.

Oh, and for any of you wondering about using my plane for long cross countries... I've learned that doing trips in these planes is a blast. Sure fast is quicker, but you really get to see the country at 100 mph vs at 200 mph. And there is a special added comfort knowing if something really goes wrong that you know you can pretty much land anywhere. Don't try that in a Glasair. And frankly, I've done enough trips in fast airplanes at altitude. Boring, boring, boring... I prefer the slower plane flying lower, even if it does take me twice as long to get where I'm going, the ride's more fun imho.

And heck, it really is all relative. Look at how many guys have flown J-3 Cubs all over tarnation...at 70 mph no less. Compared to them we're flying rocketships.