Corvair power?

[crazyivan]

ram, I like the idea of hanging a Corvair on the front of the SS. I've been thinking about it for a while and believe it would be a good combination.

Caveat...most of my opinions about the Corvair engine in an airplane come from William Wynne at www.flycorvair.com. I have spent a lot of time thinking about risk management regarding the Corvair and have some academic opinions but no real experience, except for that '66 Monza I owned several years back. This is the way I see the installation:

It is lighter than a Lycoming O-235 or O-200 and about 40 lbs heavier than a Rotax 912S. But since the SS can go up to 1550 gross then this is not a problem. It will actually help the cg if you intend on hauling a lot of stuff in the cargo area. If you want to go for an LSA certification then you might want to look at the rotax or Jabiru.

It is less than half the cost of a Rotax installation.

William Wynne has engineered a lot of parts to do the coversion. It is not a plug-and-play installation like the Rotax, but it is not starting from scratch either. Things you need to engineer are cooling baffling (which I think you would be able to use the stock cowl), exhaust, intake manifold, mount, and some of the fuel lines. The good thing is that WW has the beginnings of these systems for sale.

As for the risks involved, the Corvair has suffered several crankshaft breaks in-flight. Simply put, the front crank bearing is not big enough and the crank is not strong enough to absorb the gyroscopic and torsional loads of aerobatic flight, a heavy prop, or a high-horsepower motor. Right now I believe the only proper way to operate a Corvair on a plane is with a light prop, no aerobatics, and limited to 100hp.

I want to build my Corvair engine with the big bore (3100cc) and get about 125 hp. There are a few options that I need to explore. First, I am waiting for the results of WW's "fifth bearing" design which adds a larger bearing surface. Second, there are a few people that make billett crankshafts, but these might cost-prohibitive.

My only other reservation is the future of gasoline. If the ignorance of our legislature continues to mandate higher blends of crap-ethanol gasoline then it will not be a viable fuel for aircraft. Will a whole new line of engines that run on flex fuel or heavy fuel (diesel/Jet-A) be available in the future.

How about a big rubberband? It's easy, cheap, and no problems with ethanol.

[BBannon]

I am building a series 6 Kitfox and have a Corvair engine ready to go. I bought the cowling for the 0200/o235 engines .The Corvair engine will fit very well. My engine weighs 237 lbs. about the same as an 0200.


bbannon.

[mickey]

My only other reservation is the future of gasoline. If the ignorance of our legislature continues to mandate higher blends of crap-ethanol gasoline then it will not be a viable fuel for aircraft. Will a whole new line of engines that run on flex fuel or heavy fuel (diesel/Jet-A) be available in the future.

Turbodiesels interest me very much. For the reason you mentioned, as well as the fact that I'm a dieselhead. I owned a '99 VW New Beetle turbodiesel that I souped up (and blew up). The current owner, a VW tuner, has the thing running 250 hp AT THE WHEELS, uncorrected, from the 1.9 liters. The torque is beyond imagination. I drove it recently and it scared me.

But I digress. The current crop of aero diesels are a bit on the heavy side for a Kitfox, but lighter enignes are in the works. Indeed, leaded aviation fuel is a commodity with no future. Refiners sell very little of it, relatively speaking, and they'd love to quit making it altogether. "Diesels" running on Jet A are the future.

Somebody has a Zenith 701 flying around with a Mercedes A-class 3-cylinder turbodiesel. It has a belt drive, though, which bothers me a lot.

[Paul Z]

[quote=crazyivan;254]ram, I like the idea of hanging a Corvair on the front of the SS. I've been thinking about it for a while and believe it would be a good combination.

Caveat...most of my opinions about the Corvair engine in an airplane come from William Wynne at www.flycorvair.com. I have spent a lot of time thinking about risk management regarding the Corvair and have some academic opinions but no real experience, except for that '66 Monza I owned several years back. This is the way I see the installation:

It is lighter than a Lycoming O-235 or O-200 and about 40 lbs heavier than a Rotax 912S. But since the SS can go up to 1550 gross then this is not a problem. It will actually help the cg if you intend on hauling a lot of stuff in the cargo area. If you want to go for an LSA certification then you might want to look at the rotax or Jabiru.

It is less than half the cost of a Rotax installation.

William Wynne has engineered a lot of parts to do the coversion. It is not a plug-and-play installation like the Rotax, but it is not starting from scratch either. Things you need to engineer are cooling baffling (which I think you would be able to use the stock cowl), exhaust, intake manifold, mount, and some of the fuel lines. The good thing is that WW has the beginnings of these systems for sale.

As for the risks involved, the Corvair has suffered several crankshaft breaks in-flight. Simply put, the front crank bearing is not big enough and the crank is not strong enough to absorb the gyroscopic and torsional loads of aerobatic flight, a heavy prop, or a high-horsepower motor. Right now I believe the only proper way to operate a Corvair on a plane is with a light prop, no aerobatics, and limited to 100hp.

I want to build my Corvair engine with the big bore (3100cc) and get about 125 hp. There are a few options that I need to explore. First, I am waiting for the results of WW's "fifth bearing" design which adds a larger bearing surface. Second, there are a few people that make billett crankshafts, but these might cost-prohibitive.
quote]

You can actually build one for about $2 - 3K but there is an issue with getting insurance. I have one and in talking with the insurance man, he will not insure a plane with a Corvair engine. I probably need to check again, but that was his answer about 2 years ago.

[Slyfox]

Not to be an A on this one. But it really supprises me how people always try to cheat out on the engine. Remember, you are more than a couple feet in the air when flying. A person should be going after something that is proven for aircraft. I had somebody I know about 3 months ago that had a corvair engine in his aircraft, went down on his first flight, engine quit. He didn't make it.

[Rodney]

Well - lots of guys & gals have gone down behind Continentals and Lycomings and didn't make it either - same thing for Rotecs and almost any other engine you want to name.

Just this week we had a guy land his Cessna 150 on a golf course in Dallas after his engine quit. Guy must be a bad golfer too cause he ended up in a sand trap. OK sorry - bad humor.

The corvair certainly has had it's problems - but if you follow the history closely, most of the problems have centered around crankshaft issues.

Now with the addition of nitrided cranks and a fifth bearing added to handle gyroscopic propeller loads, this engine is certainly worth consideration.

I'll say this, any time a serious issue has arisen with the Corvair engine, there is a very active group of owners, engineers and builders that have actively addressed the issues head on, and kept the public well informed of their progress and changes.

Not so with Lycoming and Continental. How open have they been with their own crankshaft issues. Just ask Malibu owners if you have any doubts. Here's an AD for you fella - and oh - by the way - it's gonna cost you 30 thousand buck to fix your engine.

I for one applaud the efforts that have been made to make the corvair engine, and vw engines too for that matter, safe to put in an airplane.

As soon as I sell my current airplane I'll be starting in on a Kitfox - and a corvair engine will certainly be high on my list for consideration.

Regards
Rodney Wren

[Rodney]

Hey - did I kill this thread????????????\

Sure didn't mean to.

I too really like the idea of a Kitfox with a Corvair - especially one with the new 5th bearing and the 4340 cranks that are becoming available.

I've talked to Aeromax and they will build to suit at a fairly reasonable price - especially compared to Lycoming and Rotax.

Anyone else thinking along this line??

Regards
Rodney Wren

[Rodney]

Well RATS!

Anyone in the North Texas/Oklahoma area doing a Kitfox with a Corvair????

I'd love to see one.

Thanks
Rodney