Another tailwheel discussion

[jrevens]

Ok, so again, this is why this my point about maule tailwheels is so hard to get across. I specifically said that I know some have had really good luck with them. But others haven't been so lucky.

Pilots have had bad luck with every kind of tailwheel made. I was always a great fan of the Scott 6" wheel (34B/2000), but I had one bite me once when it unlocked on takeoff roll with a strong crosswind. The tailwheel was worn out and I was stupid for not paying enough attention while exercising my superior piloting skills. The Maule will not unlock when you don't want it to if it isn't worn out & if it is set up properly. By set up properly, I mean that full rudder deflection doesn't make the wheel reach the angle where it releases, and it requires sideways force to move it a small amount further to the unlocking point. On some airplanes that might not be possible without changing the amount of rudder travel or the control arm lengths on either the rudder or the wheel. You need to be set up so that you do not reach that break-free angle with full rudder deflection. If you get a bad wheel that doesn't break at the same angle each time, then you should rebuild it or return it for a good one. The Aviation Products tailwheel, as it comes from the factory, breaks at too small an angle for my set-up, so I machined the groove that the locking key runs in a little larger, increasing that angle. I don't care for the Maule because I think that the quality of manufacturing has not always been good... that is my opinion. The one that failed during the fatal accident with Ken Brock broke apart - the arm that the axle is attached to broke. I have heard that they may have had some bad parts at some particular time. Additionally, the wheel is kind of heavy & hunky. Again, that is just my opinion. I'm not trying to belittle anyone's abilities as a pilot, but you have to monitor it's condition, be aware of how the wheel works and set it up properly, whatever that takes.

[Greensuiter86]

Ironically, I flew to a newly found friends grass strip yesterday to find out he lost control of his newly acquired Mauled M5 and went thru some of his high tension fencing, caught the wing and horizontal stab on a fencepost $$$ ouch! No human damage, but the plane will require a significant rebuild. He thought he just "lost it a bit" on landing, but when I asked if we could check his tail wheel he obliged. It's a Scott, and go figure it unlocked with rudder deflection... btw, he flies for one of the big cargo airlines and has several thousand hours in all types of airplanes to include tail draggers. Just goes to show even very experienced pilots that may not be familiar with the "nuances" of a particular setup or model can get bit just like the rest of us...and be left questioning his or her piloting skills. When the problem really lies in preventative maintenance and knowledge. Another reason to credit this forum for being a great source for discussion and expanding ones knowledge base freely! Great resource!

[jrevens]

With the Scott 6" wheel you have to maintain spring tension on the arms to keep it locked until it reaches the angle where one of the arms is forced back, causing it to unlock. Loose springs are not good with a Scott. That's the 6" wheel - I'm not sure how the 8" wheel works.

[N981MS]

All of this discussion is quite interesting and enlightening.

Something that I previously assumed must not be true. I assumed that if the tailwheel were to break free and be sideways on landing that it would not be an issue. I assumed that it would snap to attention and straighten up immediately on touching down on the runway.

Also, I think I remember watching some bush pilot videos in which they intentionally had there tailwheels setup to be always "unlocked". Maybe they wheel land to a full stop or it is only on a specific airframe they can do that.

FWIW

[n85ae]

If the tailwheel angle is correct (i.e. the vertical axis of the pivot) THEN
the tendency of the tailwheel is indeed to self-center, if it isn't then the
tailwheel wants to keep on turning, which is exactly why with a tailwheel
with incorrect angle you have to run tight springs to eliminate chatter
and if it unlocks you are going for a ride.

Jeff.

All of this discussion is quite interesting and enlightening.

Something that I previously assumed must not be true. I assumed that if the tailwheel were to break free and be sideways on landing that it would not be an issue. I assumed that it would snap to attention and straighten up immediately on touching down on the runway.

Also, I think I remember watching some bush pilot videos in which they intentionally had there tailwheels setup to be always "unlocked". Maybe they wheel land to a full stop or it is only on a specific airframe they can do that.

FWIW

[jiott]

Herman Pahls, if you are following this discussion you might chime in. I believe you told me that you have flown an earlier model Kitfox for many years with the tailwheel fully castoring (no chains at all). Also I believe you mostly do wheel landings. What brand tailwheel was it?

[av8rps]

Ironically, I flew to a newly found friends grass strip yesterday to find out he lost control of his newly acquired Mauled M5 and went thru some of his high tension fencing, caught the wing and horizontal stab on a fencepost $$$ ouch!.....snip, snip....... Just goes to show even very experienced pilots that may not be familiar with the "nuances" of a particular setup or model can get bit just like the rest of us...and be left questioning his or her piloting skills.... Snip

I completely agree that any pilot can have a problem like your friend had in his Maule. I have a friend that had a beautiful 170 Cessna tailwheel that he flew actively for 26 yrs, and one day right after the runway at his local airport was repaved he landed and the tailwheel caught the edge where the two halves of the new asphalt came together, causing the tailwheel to shimmy uncontrollably and off the runway he went ending up in a groundloop that totaled his beloved 170 So that's another good example, as well as a good reminder, that it can happen to any of us.

But going back to the basis of what I posted earlier about that Avid Flyer with the brand new Maule tailwheel that I couldn't land UNTIL we disabled the full swivel feature; Here we had an airplane that was so difficult to land that every attempt made me think more that I was going to wreck the airplane just getting it back on the ground (I tried a couple dozen times over a period of about 3 hours - and each time it was just as scary as the first), so it wasn't like it was just a botched landing approach. It was every time I tried to land it. But by just disabling the tailwheels' ability to full swivel, it went from impossible to easy (or like an Avid or Kitfox should land). Saying the change was dramatic would be an understatment.

Now I really don't mean to belabor the point about this one particular airplane, but it makes a really good example of the problem I'm trying to explain our fleet may have (at least some may have) as it was the same airplane on the same day, with the same pilot, and the same tailwheel. The only difference was not allowing the tailwheel to full swivel. So that's why I'm so suspect of the Maule tailwheel.

But that's not to say that another tailwheel can't have the same problem. I personally think that any tailwheel capable of swiveling can have this problem, especially if not set up properly.

But as we are probably all learning here, setting up a tailwheel properly can appear to be some sort of a special art or science. I've not found the manufacturer (Maule in this case) to be offering us readily available, well described set up instructions. But maybe I'm missing something? I did a web search for such and all I found was people having problems with Maule tailwheels, many similar to my experience. I did find some information from individuals giving their opininon, but in reality I learned more from this thread than any of that (more proof that this forum truly is great!).

But what about the poor guy that has built a new kitplane and just bolted on his tailwheel and wants to go fly? Is he supposed to know that you may have to re-invent / re-engineer the thing if you want it to work properly? Is he expected to know all the things we have discussed here relative to privot angle, spring tension, rudder throw specifics, etc? I don't think the average guy building an airplane would begin to know all that. He's just trying to build an airplane and then go fly it. And honestly, it shouldn't have to be this difficult. IMHO, you should be able to bolt it on and go fly. Unfortunately that's not the case for many, as some work that way, and some don't. For the poor guys that aren't lucky (like my friend with the Avid wasn't), I wonder how many have wrecked their airplanes, or just scared them off from ever flying any kind of a taildragger?

It just shouldn't be that hard to sort this thing out in my opinion. But I am really glad to see people sharing their knowledge by posting to this thread. At minimum this can help those that have found this forum and are struggling with their airplane. But it sure would be nice if there was an easier way to get the information to them before they have to experience the problem, or wreck their airplane, and their confidence.

Paul

[Greensuiter86]

Paul I think you hit it on the head. My buddies Sky Raider was damaged in shipment from California, when all was fixed I became the guinea pig as I had the most experience with flying taildraggers...(and the largest set of testicals not connected to brain matter). Taxi was great, but on the runway it was a nightmare. I checked the mains to find out the right gear was toed out over an inch. When that was fixed the owner ground looped it and collapsed the gear. Partly from his inexperience and wanting to "jump in and go" expecting it to behave like the champ he'd been taking instruction in. After flying the Champ for comparison I let him know how much different they really are, (the flight also cemented my disdain for heel brakes cable or hydraulic). I think the combination of heal brake AND a potentially poorly set up or worn tail wheel is a recipe for disaster for new pilots. And let's face it LOTS of new and prospective pilots are attracted to this model aircraft for all the right reasons. But IMHO and many others, these are great little planes as long as you have some experience with lightly loaded short coupled aircraft. In my own admission I was oblivious to this potential hazard, and have been what I consider "lucky" that I've been able to fly so long without a major tail wheel incident. Like others here, I just assumed the plane came with it mounted and it worked. Yes I did some research when I changed from stock to matco on the Rans, but only was aware of the basic setup instructions, not of how potentially devistating it could be if it were to unlock in flight. Color me educated...thanks guys! Stepping of soapbox now...

Jay
N627C

[jtpitkin06]

Just what is the mysterious force that allows the tailwheel to unlock in flight then swings the tailwheel 90 degrees forward into the slipstream, and how does this mysterious force prevent the tailwheel from going into trail and centering at the moment of touchdown?


Just curious.

John

[jtpitkin06]

Matco's recommendation on tailwheel release. On and off the ground.

http://www.matcomfg.com/TailWheelSte...v-3740-13.html

http://www.matcomfg.com/TailWheelGro...v-3741-13.html