Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

[jiott]

I would have 3 concerns about the Oratex:

1. Does it have enough silver UV protection built into it? In my Polyfiber process 3 cross coats (6 total coats) of silver were used.
2. If you were using it unpainted, and had a color scheme where you need to change color along a structurally unsupported line, you would have to make an unsupported seam along that line. How durable is that seam?
3. All the finish tapes would only be held down by one application of glue. Again I think of all the layers of Polybrush holding my finish tapes in place.

[snowpaw]

Hi TeamKitfox members,
I just recently read an interesting article in the January 2014 issue of EAA Experimenter (see link) about a STOL-plane covered with Oratex that I thought I shoul share with you all.

http://experimenter.epubxp.com/i/247918

The builder/pilot wanted to reduce the weight and used Oratex and he was very positive about using it again.

In the article it is written that the plane unfortunately burnt down in a hanger fire, but there's no further comment about the effect from fire on the covering.


Maybe the builder/pilot would be willing to share some experience about covering, durability, the effect from fire on the covering, etc. if he's contacted?

If all charactertics descibed in the datasheets are valid, it would be very nice to use the Oratex covering. Imagine the weight reduction and not having to paint more than the aesthetics?

Later on I will try tro find out more about the German company who's producing the material.

[Spook712]

Check out these videos on Youtube, thay covered an AN-2 Russian biplane with ORATEX 6000, I've seen it and it look great.

Also check out the Kiebitz from MENS, it's covered with Oratex as well.

Greets from Germany
Tuna

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ee1tWDdfbM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DlZGL28Y2s

[jrevens]

I made the statement that Oratex was not translucent... in looking at the sample I have, it appeared to be opaque. My apologies to Highwing - you were right Lowell. When you get the bright sun shining through it, the structure behind can be discerned. I would guess that the 600 material would be more translucent than the 6000 that I have. It sure is very tough stuff though - I covered a test structure with my sample, & after I extracted my foot from my mouth, I stomped on it (the sample), hit it & poked it. It can stretch a little with such abuse, but a heat gun shrinks it right up again. It is more puncture resistant than Poly-Fiber/Ceconite also, as well as lighter & scratch resistant. Easily field-repaired.
Has anyone on this forum used this material yet? It would be great to hear of experience. I've talked to a fella' named Roger Peterson, in Texas, who has covered a couple of Cubs with it. He loves it. My understanding is that there is one aircraft that has been covered with this material for 10 years at this point, and is looking good.

[jiott]

If it is even somewhat translucent I don't see how it could possibly be UV resistant. The Polyfiber manual has you putting on multiple coats of the silver UV Polyspray until you can't see any light with a 60 watt bulb on the other side of the fabric. Maybe I am missing something here-is there a way to filter out all UV rays with a translucent material?

[Danzer1]

The goal of UV protectant (in this case) is to protect the covering material, not whatever's on the other side. On a window you are protecting the stuff on the inside of the window (furnishings, carpet, etc.). The Polyfiber method is simply used for a layman (home builder) to discern if you have enough coverage for their method (and is likely overkill). I'm suspecting the Oratex pre-impregnated material is more efficient (being factory applied) and (I believe) it has been tested to ensure it's adequate for it's intended purpose.

Greg

[bushfly]

I was told by betteraircraftfabric.com that the Oratex 6000 is $76.85 per square yard and the Oratex 600 is $53.80 per square yard. It should be noted that that is square yard vice linear yard in case you want to compare with ceconite or Polly. I am just wondering if a Kitfox SS7 can be covered with 600 vice 6000. According to their website any LSA can be covered with 600.

[Little_Cub]

Hi TeamKitfox members,
I just recently read an interesting article in the January 2014 issue of EAA Experimenter (see link) about a STOL-plane covered with Oratex that I thought I shoul share with you all.

http://experimenter.epubxp.com/i/247918

The builder/pilot wanted to reduce the weight and used Oratex and he was very positive about using it again.

Hi All.. Lil' Cub burned December 17th 2013 and we started the re-build mid January 2014. After three months of pretty intense work (for my wife and I), retired grandparents, we have a new Lil' Cub and she flies better than ever.

One interesting thing we can report is the fabric was almost welded to the fuselage (after the fire).. it took vice grips and wire brushes to get the old stuff off.

We had flown a winter in Arizona (stored outside) and the summer in Alaska.. about 470 hours flying time before the burn and everything was holding together well.
The first time we rushed the process and completed the (fabric) on the entire Cub in 4 LONG days! This time more time was spent but it still is much faster/cleaner than anything out there. My wife has never been an aircraft buff but she likes to be involved in my projects.. she would always run the other way when it came time for fabric. This stuff is clean and with no stink she took over on the second build.. the fabric was hers all the way!

It's easy to apply however it stands much more heat than other processes, for me it was difficult to believe it and apply the required heat. It lays down smooth and unlike the other glues.. when a seam is re-heated the glue turns liquid again between the layers and gets even smoother the second pass!

Before I rattle on too much.. we don't sell the stuff and are not associated with ABetterFabric (Lars) but when I like something.. I like to rave a bit.

Oratex allows us to still feel productive without the health dangers.. growing up in a body shop we ingested enough bad stuff.

In closing we figured we saved someplace between 20 and 25 pounds on our Experimental Cub build.. if you can find something to replace with Carbon or Titanium it generally costs between $500 and $1000 per loss of pounds. Its like getting a $10K-$20K check when doing the fabric!! We all want performance and know weight to HP is where it's at.

If you want more 'biased' independent report give a call.
Thankz for listening,

frank (Lil'Cub)
907-841-0298

[HighWing]

For what it's worth.

I talked to a buddy last week and he is in the process of covering the wings of a friend's Rans S-7 with Oratex. He has built and covered Three or four Kitfoxes, two Rans S-7s and now this Rans. He recently worked in a restoration shop that does Cubs - he was the fabric guy.

He is experienced with Polyfiber and Stewart Systems.

His take on Oratex:

Four days - no way! That is the first thing he mentioned. They have more than four days on just the S-7 wings.
Translucent - You can see the gray of the underlying structure through it.
Difficult to work with - have to glue fabric panels together.
Difficult to smooth - Permanent wrinkles.
Does he like the result - No. Does his friend the S-7 owner like the result - No.
Is it expensive - Yes. He mentioned don't forget the cost of the adhesive

Consider that this is one level second hand, but if anyone has specific questions, drop a PM and I will pass the questions on or hopefully get his permission to release his contact info.

[Little_Cub]

For what it's worth.

I talked to a buddy last week and he is in the process of covering the wings of a friend's Rans S-7 with Oratex.

Well.. where to start. First I apologize for going against a long term user of the site.. I am a lurker and have no right and only appeared because my wife and I.. like the stuff.

1- Start day we completed the first wing and started the second.
http://www.alarmspro.com/Fabric/4.png

Completion AFTER the DAR had signed off the build.
http://www.alarmspro.com/Fabric/5.png

PLEASE NOTE THESE PICTURES ARE FROM A WEB CAM WITH DATE/TIME.

2- Translucent - He got me there.. it looks light. This is a photo with low angle Alaska sun shining directly on the side.. note the tail.
http://www.alarmspro.com/Fabric/2.JPG

3- Difficult to work with.. well it takes about 30 minutes to place glue on one wing.. BOTH the ribs and fabric. If you do it light the dry time is about 3 hours. Now your ready to tack in place with an iron and go to town.

4- Difficult to smooth- Hmm I'll rely on pictures of my wife doing the tail.. takes care but sure nice once complete. (Not a ripple)
http://www.alarmspro.com/Fabric/6.JPG

The thing is.. if you don't get it smooth at first you can do it again and it only gets better.

Wing:
http://www.alarmspro.com/Fabric/1.JPG
http://www.alarmspro.com/Fabric/7.JPG

5- Does he like the result (No) - My wife has only helped on one other fabric job but the result was better than most.

6- Expensive- I guess so.. I'll sure do it again based on the weight $avings.
Just having my wife out there made the cost seem slight.

I can easily see why an ol' timer that already has a system worked out with paint booth, guns, compressor and fresh air supply might not want to venture into Oratex however I believe it is good for the rest. When I painted (two part) every day I thought I was superman.. no longer.

Sorry for infesting the list with chatter, again I just like the stuff. If we can help with any specific questions please call or PM.

Over and Out
frank
907-841-0298