Re: Checking In!
So why does IVO recommend the 2 blade medium prop for the 3:1 gearbox?
I called them and they really didn't give me an answer, I'm not sure if the gentleman I talked to even knew.
I then asked if I could add a 3rd blade for climb and he said sure.
I then asked what diameter he recommended, he told me 72-74"
Now I have read that the 2 blade prop sucks with the 582, and that the 582 has a hard time turning the 3 blade 70" + props.
Re: Checking In!
I'm running the recommended 2 blade IVO medium ground adjust 70" on my 582 3:1 C box. While the moment of inertia is within limits of the gearbox, the vibrations at idle speeds were causing the float needles in my carbs to unseat pouring out gas as a consequence. The solution to that problem was to install a clutch. Now that all works well together, it's smooth and easy to adjust, but I'm still not satisfied with my climb performance (500-800 fpm).
Some of the Avid guys are running the ultralight IFA 3 blade fine pitch 70" IVO's and seem to be very happy. That's what I would do if I wanted to make another prop investment. Like everyone else, I'm not sure why Ivo recommends the 2 blade medium for the 582 C box.
One thing for sure, you won't be able to run a 3 blade medium on the 582. The moment of inertia exceeds the gearbox limits.
-- Paul S
Model III SN910
582 IVO Med
Re: Checking In!
IMO, Ivo recommends the two blade medium because they cost more.
I have a 3-blade, 72" diameter Ivo ultralight for my IV project. I'm running a 80 hp 912 in that. I know several of these operating with very favorable results. This plane was set up with it by the previous owner and it works very well.
Ultralight blades come in two different pitch ranges. I think the finer range, 18-52" would be the favorable one for a 582 three blade, rather than the more corse 35-70". Per the Ivo website, this prop will take up to 100 hp.
SO-- why they recommend the Medium is beyond my understanding other than $$.
Link
Re: Checking In!
Originally Posted by Rmendler
Fortunately my local Snap-On truck had an aviation precision prop torque wrench for $300
It's okay he had a used one for $120. None of my torque wrenches would go as low or as high as 100in-lbs. We checked it on the truck before I used it on the prop. I torqued from 5ft-lb up to 8ft-lb. No over-torque occured, although the hub was already a little tight. I did manage to fit a .0012 gauge in it but thats not much of a gap, its really tight.
So anyway, we tried the prop at every degree from 12-23 over the past few days just to see what would happen. I had some free time on my hands. The engine seemed to like 19 degrees the most, static RPM was 6,200 on the button. GSC thought this was very high but I found some others online who use as high as 20 degrees.
We tried to use a prop tach, when I tried to get new batteries for it I could not find them, they are L1147 watch batteries, no one here has them. I may have to order them tonight.
So far that's all I have done, play with the prop pitch. It was a good learning experience.
The Tach is an OEM ROTAX gauge. I really wish I could get the prop tach working tonight, I'd go double check it tomorrow.
Oh and the noise when I was tightening the prop was just the urethane, it made alot of noise, even when I would torque to 50 in lbs.
The main jets are 170, idle jet is a 55 and the Needle Jet is a 11G2 on the 3rd richest setting.
I've managed to get the prop adjustment time down to 30 minutes per adjustment, no way to do it in 10 minutes. You can line them all up perfect but as soon as you add some tension to the bolts they shift slightly, so it takes a few tries in my experience. Perhaps I am being a bit anal but I don't want my propeller blades 1/2 degree off, I get them perfect before I start the engine.
Your GSC blades are likely in need of replacemnet now. .0012 gap means that the blades have been bee nover tightened.
Here is one that shows the gap http://cfisher.com/gsc/
and the blade still failed. ]
I have used GSC for years and never had one fail on me yet but I have seen a few fail. Any prop will fail and most brand have from time to time.
I have found GSC 68" usually set around 16 degrees +/- 1/2 degree.
using a GSC protractor.
I would also think that you should get a tiny tach to confirm that your RPMs are correct.
Re: Checking In!
I would get the WARP or the IVO Ultralight prop as you mentioned. The IVO Medium I have used and works well. YOu have to lexperiment and learn how to pitch IVO though.....
I find that you might have to go static higher rpm that 6000 to 6200 cause once you start rolling the prop starts to coursen up a bit. Good prop over all.
The reason thats IVO recos the2 blade is due to some harmonic issues running a 3 blade on a 3 to 1 ratio.
I ran WARP 68" with nickel Leading edges for over 1500 hours ( not a tapered tip) on floats, wheels and skiss and it was the best prop overall plus the most durable in my opinion.
I have played with alot of props over the years and had a blast doing it. 3 blades are my favorite. Quieter and smoother.
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IVO - 2 blade on 3 to 1 ratios due ot harmonic issues.
Bottom line on B box use an IVO
C or E box use WARP or IVO ....... GSC ok too - I have one I could sell maybe.
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Sounds logical, Dave. Thanks.
A question for you: Have you experimented with different ratios in your gearbox and what works best in your opinion?
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Okay guys I have a tiny tach now. I'm going to double check my tach readings. I'll keep you guys updated on how far off my analog Rotax tach is
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Both of the tachs, the Tiny Tach and the Rotax Tach are almost identical, they are about 50 RPM's off is all. The Rotax tach reading a tad bit high
EGT's are still holding at 1,050 and 1,075 at WOT and 6,200 RPM's Static on both tachometers.
The prop is still pitched at 19 degrees.
The fuel regulator was leaking when the engine was warm, hardly noticeable, but I went ahead and replaced it with a new pressure tested one and set it to 3 PSI.
The spark plugs are NGK part # BR8ES and gapped at .018. They are a light grey, almost ashy color with no unusual erosion or anything.
Nothing seems to be out of the ordinary. I found a very small amount of trash in one fuel filter. When the wing tank is empty I will replace it but I don't think that is the problem, but they are just $10 bucks. Cheap insurance as far as I'm concerned.
Any other suggestions other then the jets? Which I haven't messed with yet.
Last edited by Rmendler; 05-31-2013 at 01:33 PM.
Re: Checking In!
Rmendler;30986]Both of the tachs, the Tiny Tach and the Rotax Tach are almost identical, they are about 50 RPM's off is all. The Rotax tach reading a tad bit high
EGT's are still holding at 1,050 and 1,075 at WOT and 6,200 RPM's Static on both tachometers.
The prop is still pitched at 19 degrees.
I think something is wrong here
The fuel regulator was leaking when the engine was warm, hardly noticeable, but I went ahead and replaced it with a new pressure tested one and set it to 3 PSI.
Did not know the stock Mikuni pump was adjustable?
The spark plugs are NGK part # BR8ES and gapped at .018. They are a light grey, almost ashy color with no unusual erosion or anything.
I would like to see some brown on it.
Nothing seems to be out of the ordinary. I found a very small amount of trash in one fuel filter. When the wing tank is empty I will replace it but I don't think that is the problem, but they are just $10 bucks. Cheap insurance as far as I'm concerned.
Any other suggestions other then the jets? Which I haven't messed with yet.
Did you get the engine back to stock yet?
Seems like someone have played around alot with this set up ...........
Stock settings should do you well untill your base elevation is 5000 ASL
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