How much runway is enough?

[Dick B in KY]

Old pilots and bold pilots, BUT, very few old and bold pilots.

Dick B (former Helio Courier C/STOL pilot)

[kitfoxnick]

Mine started out as 900' with trees 600' to the east of the threshold, and clear to the west. Having my plane out behind the barn is priceless.

You will have to pick your days. The uphill factor is going to make it a one way in, one way out most of the time. Having a challenging strip to come home to will make you a better pilot. Instead of landing on 1500' runway with clear approaches. You can do it, there are plenty of people with short runways who do. You have to have enough skill, and enough plane to pull it off.

Check out supercub.org a lot of AK guys on there.

Head up north and go flying with these guys. John has a plethora of landing spots on his farm from beginner to advanced.

http://ohiobushplanes.com/1/?page_id=163

This video was made a couple of years ago there is a glimpse of me on decelerator at about 1:14 on the video

[ackselle]

Well.... my farm runway is about 1400'x75'(in summer.... much narrower in winter because I want to fly...not blow snow). I doesn't need to be 1400' long for me with my Kitfox, but I get alot of visitors (which I like) because it is long enough for a wide variety of planes. Depending on the crop we grow(soybeans good, corn bad), there's an easy approach on either 18 or 36.

Here's a picture of it last Sunday. The air was wonderfully smooth @ -18C.

[ackselle]

BTW... very nice video Nick! I love the "decelerator"!

[DesertFox4]

Great photo ackselle. Beautiful Kitfox.

[FitchUpNorth]

Simple answer......

No. Thats not enough. 500 maybe as a fun camping backcountry drop in. Everyday? Add slope and trees? You can do it right a million times, you only have to do it wrong ONCE.... Maybe its me getting conservative in my aging, but I think thats just too close a margin. It can get warm up there. Plus add gear and another FAA standard person, and it may get a bit hairy on the margins. Cut it THAT close and you don't even have to have a full blown engine failure, just a simple hiccup or a derated hp performance, and it can become a VERY bad day in a VERY big hurry. Trees get REALLY big REALLY fast, and thats never a good thing.... Been There, Done That.

Rethink that plan, buddy. Don't want to ever read about you or anyone else on here in an "after the fact" thread.

"Nothings more useless to a pilot than runway behind him, altitude above him, or fuel left in the truck"

Greasy side down...

[GWright6970]

James (WurlyBird), I FULLY understand your mindset, as being afflicted with it myself... as a former Army Aviator, (flew Cobras in Nam with the Real Cav). One of my scout pilots is on this forum also. He has a KF Model II, with a 582 pulling it.

I grew up in Alaska, started flying there while still in high school, etc., so I feel I can safely say it will suit you well as an Army helicopter pilot!

For this discussion I just wish to say, that one just has to go see if "the SPECIFIC strip fits." What may feel ok outside of Ft Richardson (Anchorage), may not up at Ft. Wainright (Fairbanks)... of course you will have to remember to consider the ALL of the "two seasons." Most folks do not fly much, if at all, during the winter up there, especially those in the interior of Alaska, hence the high number of spring accidents when everyone takes off with their super rusty skills.

Having bush experience, the only honest answer is "it all depends how it looks today." Forgive me for saying the "duh obvious", but please do NOT buy any land sight un-seen. Camera angles may NOT give a true picture. I believe that you will find some acceptable property that will provide you with a landing strip. (The best fit is if you are getting stationed in Fairbanks.)

<<Yes, I still say, "Above the best.... we'll always give it a try!">>

I wish you the very best on your new assignment. Please keep in touch and let us know what you decide when you get up there, and how it goes!

Grover

[GWright6970]

ackselle,
I think you just posted everyone's Christmas Card picture for next year!!

I love it!

thank you!
Grover

[WurlyBird]

Just so you know Grover, I am jealous. The Cobra and the LOH had to be an awesome combination to run around those jungles in.

I like the input on this topic, again it was mostly intended to spark some good stories/conversation. I am forever a child at heart and no matter how much property I own I will always dream of landing and taking off in the back yard. I currently have 4.5 acres in a residential area, the longest shot including a little of my neighbors yard is about 1000' and I have yet to land there. But that is primarily because of the ruckus it would cause. Sigh, to dream.

Oh, and Grover, was the "Real" CAV a unit title or are you suggesting we aren't real CAV anymore?!?!

[HighWing]

I like the input on this topic, again it was mostly intended to spark some good stories/conversation. I am forever a child at heart and no matter how much property I own I will always dream of landing and taking off in the back yard.

I envy the guys that feel comfortable flying like this - I guess I am just an old pilot. Bold is for the younger guys.

One of the guys we flew with had an early Rans S-7. Was that a Rans I saw occasionally in the Nick's video? Anyway, he lives in the outskirts of Elko, Nevada. His house is on a hill with a small shed - hangar - with a short taxiway that runs up the hill about another 75 feet to a road that is cut out of the hill behind his house. Probably close to full power to get from the shed to the road. The road runs cross wise to the slope. He uses that road as his runway.

Two things are critical for him. Since the road is cut out of the slope, one wing is very close to the ground and he has to pay close attention to that. Then there is a gentle ridge running down the slope to his house so there is a rise to a peak in the road - in other words the road rises up to a ridge then descends back down again. If he lands a foot or two short of the ridge, he will bounce and will have to go around. If he lands a bit long, he won't have room to stop. He has used this runway for years. Would I land there? Never. Does he give rides? Yes, but he will meet his passenger either at the airport or at a more favorable section of the road.

The pay-off? He would regularly win the Spot Landing contest at the Kitfox Factory fly-in when those events were still held. This guy knew his airplane, what it could do and felt comfortable doing it. I think in this sense and related to the original question, one size definitely doesn't fit all.
Lowell