Kitfox and beginners

[maxb]

Hello all,

First of all, I'm very happy to have found this forum, which is exactly what I was searching for m(and pleas pardon me for my not perfect English: I'm Italian, living in Italy).

I started to fly 20 years ago with paragliders (which I still fly today), but I'm becoming day by day more intereted in flying with something better :-)

I have seen several ultralights, but -honestly- the only one I really like is the Kitfox. Here some of them can be found as second hand (unluckily I don't have enough time to build one byu myself, also if I would prefer doing so), but the question is another: of course I have to take flight lessons, but what is your opinion about having a Kitfox as a first plane? Does this make sense? I mean: it's a taildragger, so more challenging to takeoff and land, but in the past all the planes were taildraggrs (and I believe too they were more diffcult to fly), as well as other similar question.

You that know so well this plane, what is your opinion? I would not (as we say here) take a step longer than the leg, but also avoid to buy a plane which I will need to change in a (more or less) short time.

Many thanks in advance for any help!

Ciao,

Massimo (Max)

[Skybolt]

Hello Max.
Welcome to this forum.

I don't think it wize to go buy an airplane and teach yourself to fly it.

Do you know of a flight instructor who is familier with the tailwheel.
You will need at least some time with an instructor...maybe even getting the equivalent of a private pilots licence...that would be good.

Having an instructor go up with you in a Kitfox will also be benificial.
But getting signed off by an instructor is, for me very important.

Is the Kitfox more difficult than other tailwheel aircraft. I personaly don't think so.
Look at the thread "how to fly the Kitfox" Order the book from Kitfox, it shows and describes what to expect.

Flying the Kitfox is fun and handling a tailwheel is more fun...but have fun safely.

Greetings. Eric.

[mcguif0a]

Also remember that the Kitfox does not have to be a tail dragger. If you are nervous about the tailwheel you may be interested in the nose wheel version. They don't seem to be as common but if your patient you should be able to find one.

[maxb]

Ciao,

Thanks for the responses!

First of all, I want to underline that's NOT my idea to fly a Kitfox (or whatever else) teaching by myself. I will get a lot of flight lessons. As much as I need, and probably even more

My question was just about to know if I can think to have a Kitfox as a first plane. I would like just to avoid mistakes and getting a very difficult plane as first.

From you answers, looks like that the Kitfox can be good for this if starting the whole thing from the beginning.

Agauin thanks, and welcome to further suggestions and opinions.

Ciao,

Max

[Skybolt]

Max said;
"My question was just about to know if I can think to have a Kitfox as a first plane. I would like just to avoid mistakes and getting a very difficult plane as first."

My Classic IV is my first plane. Yes I had my training in the Cessna 152 and then the 172. Rented for a couple of years.
Got the Kitfox kit, spent no time flying and a couple of years building. When it was time to prepair for flight I found an instructor with a Piper cub and then a Citabria and finaly in the Kitfox. I personaly don,t find the Kitfox more difficult to land than these.
All three aircraft are very different from each other. The Cub was the most difficult to taxi and flair for landing because of foreward visibility.

(Of course, my interpetations of this are based on the learning factor, newness to tailwheel. Ask any Cub owner and he will say not a problem to land and taxi because he is so familier with it)

Anything can be a bit of a problem when new. Remember your first bike!

Eric

[SkyPirate]

Ciao,

Thanks for the responses!

I might be late in replying to this ,..but here's my 2.5 cents worth ..if you learn to fly a tail dragger..you can fly any other wheeled configurationed aircraft in the same class you learned in..ie 2 place single engine ...
in my opinion it is easier to fly a tail dragger ,..
one ..because you learn to be less complacent,..you have got to fly the plane until it comes to a complete stop,
two..you learn to do short field T/O's and landings without worry of the front wheel sinking into soft ground,..so runway's are not always required for tail draggers
three ,,you just can't beat the nostalgia of a taildragger it's just too dang Sexy~!!

[R. Griswold]

Hi: Allbee's reply that kitfoxes are tough to fly is very revealing. That one comment may keep me from making a huge mistake. I surely don't want an aircraft that is as difficult to fly as he makes it sound. But I am very curious: How and why? How is the aircraft tough to fly? I presume we are talking about landing here, probably in a crosswind situation? Perhaps in the tail dragging configuration? With a low wing loading and pretty slow approach, just what is the issue? What is it about the airplane design that tends to make it a handfull? Could it be the rather full and slab sided tail section of the fuselage. This is critical stuff. I'm way behind almost everyone on this site in any experience. The last thing I need is to choose a plane that is not the most gentle, docile, forgiving airplane ever. Is there something out there that is universally acknowledged as so easy to fly, even a caveman could do it? Rich

[Robin G]

I'm still in the learning phase with my model 3, only about 15 hours. My last few hundred hours were in A-36 Bonanzas and P-210s and that was 20 years ago. I wouldn't say my fox is tough to fly at all, but it is althgether different than driving a fast heavy platform through the air. A long wing, light weight, relatively slow, tail dragging model 3 is really getting back to basic flying. You must be agile and stay in control of the airplane. If you are willing to keep that focus, it is both a safe, simple and a very fun airplane to fly. If you are not, I'd suggest boating.

robin g

[av8rps]

This is a really old thread now, but a good one to keep going for anyone considering a Kitfox. So here's my story;

I soloed in a J-3 Cub when 16, but didn't finish my Private Pilots license until I was 23. After renting Pipers and Cessna's for another 40 hours of flying time, I finally got frustrated enough and bought my 1st airplane, an Avid Flyer (the predecessor to the Kitfox for anyone that doesn't already know that). It was a completed and flying airplane (It was actually Dean Wilsons Prototype), but I bought it with no idea how to get checked out in it, as since it was only 1986 there were essentially no aircraft like this in my area. So I decided to learn the airplane on my own...

With a whole 85 hours of flying time in my logbook, all in "Spam Cans" (which are VERY different than this little tube and fabric airplane with folding wings), I put the tow bar on the tail and towed it down to a hayfield a mile from my house. I threw the tow bar in the weeds and put the wings out. After a thorough pre-flight, I hopped in it and gave the recoil a pull and the engine came to life. Never having flown an airplane at that point with a snowmobile motor, I admit I had my doubts (the Avid was built in 1982, before Rotax was even involved in aircraft engines. So it used a Cuyuna 430 cc 2 stroke typically used in a Scorpion snowmobile).

But when I poured the coals to it and experienced for the 1st time the incredible acceleration it had compared to the other planes I had flown (and in grass nearly 3 ft tall!), I knew I was going to like this little airplane. This things had LOTS of POWER! I was off in only a couple hundred feet without even trying. And the climbout was equally impressive maintaining a 45 degree angle. WOW!! This was FUN I had never experienced in any other airplane! After an hour and a half of flying around learning the airplane, I came in for my first landing. Man, that was so much fun that I did 28 more landings that afternoon! Finally the sun was starting to set, so I reluctantly put the tow bar on the tail and folded the wings and took it home.

That summer I flew that little Avid Flyer over 200 hours. And I had so much fun learning its capabilities that the more I flew it the more I came to love this little plane. And even though I had little extra money to spend on things like flying at the time, I was flying A LOT and wasn't upsetting the household budget, or my bride. This was the perfect airplane for me at the time. And I can't even begin to describe how much it taught me about flying. And when I put it on floats shortly after, the fun level went off the charts! (see attached circa '87 pic)

After 1300+ Avid Flyer hours I decided to move on to some other airplanes (primarily a Pitts and a Lake Amphibian), which I enjoyed a lot. But after 900 hours of playing around, I realized I was missing my old Avid Flyer. So one day I did something about that by purchasing a 912 Kitfox IV project, and after a few years of work on it I flew it for the 1st time. And the minute it left the ground I was reminded just why I love flying these great little airplanes. The Kitfox flew much like my old Avid, just better. More refined is probably the best way to describe it. And I've been enjoying it ever since...

So with all that said, I think a Kitfox would make for an awesome 1st airplane. You may have to work a bit harder initially when learning the Kitfox compared to a Cessna or Piper. But after you master the Kitfox you will be a much better pilot. And while you learn the Kitfox, you'll have a lot more fun flying it than anything else I can think of.

[Kitfox_70]

Excuse the poor etiquette of replying to an old thread but somebody needs to tell you what a great story that was.