Cost per hour

[sarnett]

Can someone tell me an approximate cost per hour to operate a Kitfox. I imagine it varies some by model, engine etc. So let's say, for the sake of discussion, a Model IV w/ a Rotax 912.

If you factor in fuel, insurance, maintenance and all other costs of operating the aircraft what is the per hour rate to fly? I recently read that a Cessna 150 can cost $50 to $90 an hour to fly when all the expenses are factored in. A Kitfox must be cheaper than that.

Thanks,
-Steve

[t j]

If you include fixed costs, the more you fly the lower the hourly cost. The savings over a certified airplane for me comes from doing my own maintenance and keeping my kitfox at home.

[HighWing]

tj hits the nail on the head. The costs will vary a lot depending on your own circumstances.

Hangar costs - As tj, I keep my airplane at home - residential airpark with a hangar attached to my house.
$0.00 per hour
Insurance - I just got a quote of $1049. The quote was based on a bit over 1000 hours tailwheel time with most of that in a Kitfox Model IV. If I continue to fly at the rate of 100 hours per year , that would be:
$10.50 per hour.
Fuel - I averaged less than 3 gallons an hour for fuel during the nine years I had my first Model IV, that would be again about:
$10 an hour using mogas.
Oil change - I used then recommended Pennzoil motorcycle motor oil - $4 a quart. 3+ quarts every 50 hours, say $16 per change / 50, call it:
$.50 per hour.
Maintenance - As builder, I do my own maintenance and annual. Maintenance parts would include spark plugs, fuel filters, tires, batteries lubricants, etc. So much variability here depending on where you will be flying from, hangar, garage or tiedown (risk of hangar rash), hours flown, etc. but a rough estimate considering normal maintenance items less than
$1 per hour.
A new engine after 2000 hours at $20,000 in round numbers:
$10 an hour.
Insert items I forgot here:

Total so far for my specific Model IV:
$32 an hour
But there might be some major items that go bad unexpectedly or the airplane might be sold before some of the major items need attention.
Lowell

[Dorsal]

My numbers at 100 hrs a year (actually running 120 per year so far)

Hangar costs -
$36 per hour

Insurance - Liability only
$5 per hour.

Fuel - 100 LL 5/gph @ $5/gal (discounted slightly for hobbs vs flying hours)
$25 an hour

Oil change - I use Aeroshell for Rotax every 25 hours
$1 per hour.

Maintenance - Same as HighWing's comments
$1 per hour.

A new engine after 2000 hours at $20,000 in round numbers:
$10 an hour.

Insert items I forgot here:

Total so far for my specific Model VII:
$78 an hour

[rogerh12]

Steve;

I see some great estimates, very detailed too, but you can save some money though:

1) Get an engine and fuel system that will run on 87 octane car gas.
2) Install an engine that can be rebuild for $1,000 or so.
3) Build your plane with a nose wheel, this will greatly reduce the insurance cost for low time pilots.
4) Use a filtered oil system, you can go twice as long before an oil change.
5) Use an engine that does not require expensive European parts, the exchange rate is just getting worse.
6) Share your hanger with a low wing plane.
7) Get an engine that can use an cheap wood prop.
8) Go all analog on your instruments, and by them second hand for even more savings.

Hope this helps

Roger

[Dave Holl]

Roger
Some good ideas but how practical are some of them? Re the engine I agree with you the cost of the Rotax 912 but are the other options any better? I considered the 0200 as I have one fitted to my Jodel and it is a great engine reasonably powerful and reliable but heavy and in the UK at least not much cheaper than the 912. Is there really another power plant that is cheaper,light weight and gives the power required other than two strokes? in the Uk there is little difference between the insurance between nose and tail draggers if you have the experience and now also the tail wheel endorsement.
On the subject of costs our fuel and hangarige are way above the us,s with avgas north of £2 per litre which is aprox £8 per gallon and 12 us per imperial gallon so engine efficiency is important to us! Hangarige varies but £300 per month is not uncommon in Southern England.
Wooden props new here you would be lucky to get one much below£500!
At times it makes you wonder why we bother! But on a clear day at 3000 ft it all becomes clear
Dave

[HighWing]

Not a detailed response, but tj is spot on with his comment. Both detailed replies neglected to mention the cost of the airplane itself. I have a friend who built a Model IV with Subaru EA81. He started about the same time I did in the early 90s. He has yet to fly off the 40 hours, but for the sake of fairness lets give him 40 hours. I don'y know what he paid for the engine so lets discount that. With 1993 dollars, he has about $20,000 in the airframe alone. Divide that by 40 hours and it has cost him $500 an hour so far - just for the airplane.

Steve;

I see some great estimates, very detailed too, but you can save some money though:

2) Install an engine that can be rebuild for $1,000 or so.

5) Use an engine that does not require expensive European parts, the exchange rate is just getting worse.
7) Get an engine that can use an cheap wood prop.

Roger

The above edited.

A trip report: Nine Experimentals - Just, Rans, Kitfox, originating from Washington to Colorado - assembleld and departed Denver. Seven made it. A couple of hours East of Denver, one airplane turned back and another followed him as an escort. Guess which airplane didn't have an engine with "Expensive European Parts." Check the ads. Many of the airplanes offered have alternative engines, most with very low time. I think there is a message there.
Lowell

[DAT]

The spreadsheet below has formulas that compute throughout the spreadsheet as you change the Input. Fixed Cost are the same whether you fly 1 hours or 200+ so obviously, the cost per hr goes down as use goes up. Variable Cost is the cost that you have when the plane is flying. Add the two together and you get the cost per hour. Some people figure interest cost on capital whether you own it out right (loss of income/opportunity cost) or have debt. Some owners have not built their planes, therefore, have to pay an A&P for some part of the inspection and repair sign-off. Good points have been expressed in this thread. Good luck and safe flying!

Aircraft Operating Budget

Data Input
Annual Use 100
Aircraft Value $39,000
Fuel Flow gph 5
Fuel Cost - Mo Gas $3.50
Engine TBO 2,000
Engine Cost $20,000
Interest 5%

Fixed Cost Per Month Per Year
Hangar $100.00 $1,200.00
Insurance $81.67 $980.00
Annual/Condition Insp $16.67 $200.00
Capital Cost $162.50 $1,950.00
Total Fixed Cost $360.83 $4,330.00

Variable Cost
Fuel/hr $17.50
Oil Change/hr $1.00
Airframe Maint $2.00
Engine Maint $5.00
Avionic Maint $2.00
Engine Reserve $10.00
Misc/Charts/Data $2.00
Total Variable Cost $39.50 $39.50

Fixed Cost per hr.
based on Hrs per yr $43.30
Total Cost Per Hr. $82.80

[Slyfox]

cost to fly per hour.

Hmmmm. lets see here.

hangar rent 220 month
engine 18000 put in a couple years ago.
fuel 91oct E fuel. about 3.80gal now
I fly every day, but not with this airplane.
I don't give a flip how much it cost me.
I don't care if I know.
I fly because it makes me happy.
I figure my budget on other things after my flying cost are made.
If I can't afford it I sell things.
Hay wait, I also have another airplane, it's an RV.
that hangar is also 220 a month.
I can give the cost on that one to but that's not what this thread is about.

point being, if you have an experimental you are getting by very cheap on cost. expecially on the yearly inspection on the plane. along with that the grin on your face for having an aircraft that far exceeds a spam can. cost per hour, put it this way, way less than those certified planes. I'm sure also way less than those cessnas out there in a club of 4 that split the bill for certified expenses.

This is my thought, if you own a car and you need to afford to fly. sell the car and get a bus card, now you should be able to afford it. just a thought.

[rogerh12]

Hey David;

I guess my comments are based on folks in the USA, and can’t really speak much of UK options. But if you do live in the Americas, read on:
The Rotax 912 is the Cadillac of experimental engines, and most folks think it’s the best too, but not everyone can afford one. There are a least a ½ dozen popular and much cheaper engine choice, all of them either auto conversion, or using parts from automobiles engine. Whether one is practical for your particular flying and building skills, it’s up to you to decide (the installation won’t be cookie cutter like the rotax is). But if it’s a case of flying with a cheap engine, or not fling at all, then I guess that makes an auto conversion practical for some folks just by default.

In the 200-220 lbs engine range, producing 100 HP the corvair and Subaru EA-81 engines jump to mind, with the EA-81 being very popular with the Avid Flyer group, especially down south where it’s extra cooling ability is appreciated. Here in the Midwest, in the 170 lbs engine range, the VW is popular as it produces up to 80 HP and Both Aerovee and Great Plains VW are located here, both with decades of experience ( though it is not used much in Kitfox and requires a special setup to make it practicable). The low cost 60 HP hand propped version of the VW can purchased new and assembled for less than $5000, and has a rebuild parts cost of less than $500, but is only suitable for certain aircraft and flying styles. Of couse, there are others, but these old standbys are well understood, both in their strengths and weaknesses.

Wood props start at about $350 in the USA, several manufactures are in the USA.

The first “E” in EAA means experimental, and if you’re the experimental type and will work a job to completion even if things get confusing, then a cheaper auto conversion might work for you. However, if you just want to do it like 1000s of others and don’t think much of custom engine installations, then the Rotax is probably the route you want to take, unless of course you are poor (like me), then you don’t have much choice if you still want to own and fly your own plane (once again, like me).

Good luck in the Olympics !!!!!

Hope this helps

Roger