912 uls vs Viking HF110

[szicree]

sure it can ,..heck a volkswagen can as long as the road isnt flat ,..and the tires are top of the line perelli's,..16 R 50's

probably aught to get back on topic

Now wait a second. Certainly a banked road will allow even a crappy car to take a lot of g, but only part of this is truly lateral. For example, you could take a car around a 60 degree bank at a speed sufficient to generate a centripetal acceleration of 3 g, but only 1.5 g would be in the lateral direction (parallel to the pavement). The rest is directed into the track. Meanwhile, good ol' gravity is trying to slide the car down the bank at .866 g. Therefore the net tendency to slide the car laterally is only 1.5g -.866g = .634g. If we're trying to see how the engine handles side loading, these distinctions are quite relevent.

[DesertFox6]

Actually, as an aviation-related footnote; unless you're doing a transitional-vectored maneuver, like a loop, Cuban eight or cloverleaf, flying straight up or straight down, (that's 90 degrees from the "horizontal,") requires zero G.

"G required" (without going into all the trig) varies as the sustained pitch attitude: Sustained, level/horizontal, flight requires 1 G while vertical up/down flight requires 0 G, with each sustained pitch angle in between varying accordingly between those two limits. Where the oil winds up is anyone's guess until it appears on your windshield: THEN you'll know for sure!

Seriously though, any engine, 912, HF110, Honda, Lycoming or McCullough chainsaw, that isn't rigged to sustain fuel or oil pressure under zero G conditions will quickly eliminate itself from your cross-check needs, thus allowing you to concentrate exclusively on your stick and rudder skills!

"E.T."
(Sold on 912s for all the right reasons already mentioned!)

[chefwarthog]

When I buy the (eventual) Kitfox... it will be Rotax powered, simply because convincing my insurance company to "go Experimental" will be tough enough with a very proven engine, which Rotax is... The only hate I have for the setup is the cost... it really is too damned much by a factor of 50%... don't worry, I am a capitalist and they do win the supply / demand debate every time...

With that said... I have to admit, I study all the engines that "compete" with the 912 (100 hp). Lycoming made a decent effort, but fell way short on the weight, it's still too heavy given the LSA rules... Continental, well, in my non-engineer opinion, they just fell short... The guy who put the Yamaha on his gyrocopter has some great things going, but he isn't a developer, so it's a one-off... not in my lifetime, and the Belgian engine seems like a good one but too small, and the Corvair, etc... back to the insurance company problem.

This Honda conversion and the argument the Egg guy puts forth makes some sense... You know that old flying saying? "if it looks like it can fly, it can, if it doesn't, it won't"... the Subaru didn't feel right with me, this Honda does. I have had a Honda outboard for many years... it runs like a sewing machine. The Fit engine has an excellent pedigree. The Rotax, actually evolved from a snowmobile right? And a 2 stroke one at that... the Fit, IMHO, has a superior pedigree... tinkering for 5 years will work the prop swing bugs out.

Egg is such a bad self promoter on the chat forums and in the videos it's funny, it's like watching a bad auto dealer, you know the guys with the toupes, etc... but, I have to thank him for his efforts to make affordable and safe flying for all... I do hope he becomes successful so he can make enough money to go in the lab where he probably excels... so he can get a professional marketing team...

So, Mr. Egg, keep doing what you are doing, I think there are enough early adopters out there who want to fly cheaply... just don't screw up.

100% agreement on that thread, you say it all, my friend.
I wist i was better in english to make my self more clearly....

[chefwarthog]

Hi guys, I juste find this video of this two engine on a comparative static pull test and the Hf 110 pull 480lb, as much as the Rotax 914. so imagine if they install a turbo on the Viking, we won't be able to fly the Kitfox with doors open anymore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=DOeKsD8aXq0

And like Andrew G said, M.Egg let the marketing to the professioal

[Andrew G]

Honda is in the middle of building their plant and launching production of their new jet and engine... perhaps they will view aviation as a good opportunity...

There are thousands of LSA's around the world, the market for fuel efficient, Rotax-ish engines is good... maybe Honda will enter the normally aspirated engine market too and create some much needed competition. Honda makes scads of recreational products, may as well make an engine for the LSA market too...

Much better pedigree than Rotax, which, despite the newness of Rotax's design vis their 2 stroke snowmobile engines... Honda's 4 stroke quality and history are literally legendary in many different applications. For Honda to bridge the gap to successful aviation engines shouldn't be that difficult...

[Dorsal]

http://world.honda.com/news/2003/c030304.html

[Squirrelfox]

Report from the front: I'm just a few miles south of Viking and made a trip up there a cfew weeks back to look things over. A few observations regarding the thread.

Their operation is small but professional. Testing like the youtube video is on going. THe bollard thrust test was interesting but from a pure testing environment...the variables were not controlled so a little apples and orange debate is still out there. I liked the smoothness in sound as compared to the Rotax..Not sure of the value on that statement.

I just don't see Honda entering the LSA or small GA engine market. They live off of economies of scale while limiting their liability...Aviations presents too much risk in the "backyard" market. I think it will up to entrepeneurs like Viking to provide our niche. A while back there was an engine based on the Harley motorcycle lineage..I believe Harley aggressively put a stop to the marketing. I hope that Honda does no such action regarding Viking as I truly admire the vision...There are always engineering difficulties and only time will tell if Eggenfeller has hit the mark. I think we all hold a bit of gratitude for all the conversion engine folk as they collectively bring innovation.

I agree that Rotax is the comparison leader. Judging from the reports..they are not "bulletproof" however. PSRU failures and carb issues. I'm not convinced that the cost is not a false sense of security, I will admit that a widespread engine model brings improvements and reliability in the long run...Any thoughts.

[chefwarthog]

I wonder what is the difference of the top speed between the 912 uls & 914?

[Dorsal]

Depends on altitude.

[chefwarthog]

what is the difference at low, mid, and high altitude?