Kitfox IV Speedster & learning to fly

[Geowitz]

Obviously, your mileage may vary and not bragging, but I built my speedster and did the first flight myself after getting my tail wheel endorsement in 5 hours. Actually, that 5 hours was the only flying time I had after 10 years of not flying anything at all. I got the tail wheel endorsement in a Champ. It was slow to respond and only had 65hp. When I got in the kitfox I LOVED the responsiveness. It did what I told it to do. No hesitation. I thought and still think the Speedster is EASIER to fly than the champ.

[av8rps]

I think the Speedster was one of the better flying designs in the Kitfox heritage. And even though it was named a "Speedster" and had 3 ft shorter wings than the standard Kitfox, in reality the Speedsters wing span is pretty much the same as the Avid STOL wing, and is about 5 feet longer than the Avid Speedwing (which was out in tbe mid 80's, vs the Speedster introduced in 92 as I recall). So no one should be intimidated by the Speedster. In fact, I'm pretty sure if you do the math, you would find the Speedsters wing loading to be comparable to a J-3 or a Champ. It certainly is not like the clipped wing Monocoupe it somewhat resembles physically. That plane is a handful!

I still applaud Kitfox and Dan Denney for the Speedster, as it is one really cool little airplane that is so reminscent of the 30's air racers, but anyone can fly it. And it is still a pretty good STOL airplane. I'm glad to see people are still appreciating it, as it is truly one of those timeless designs that will never get out of style.

I still keep thinking about chopping the wings down to 26 ft on the Model 4 project I have in the shop, as that is the wingspan I think would make it an even better Speedster. One of these days...

[HighWing]

My only flight in a speedster was at the factory fly-in in 1992 and the factory demo then was the chartreuse and purple one in all the videos. I had an interesting conversation with a local Model IV owner a week or so ago. He was talking about a mutual friend who owned a vixen with the convertible wing extensions. He flew it as a speedster for many years. When he once put on the long tips, he couldn't control the airplane. That was him, but it does tend to substantiate Paul's impressions.

[av8rps]

I think if you have a model 4, unless you are doing a lot of backcountry or float flying, or tend to fly heavy or at higher altitudes most of the time, you'd be better off with the shorter wing. Not only will the Speedster wing fly faster, but it will ride out turbulence better, and overall be a bit more fun to fly as the controls are even quicker / more sensitive. Climb rate loss is minimal as I recall, and so is stall speed. And that all makes sense as if you calculate wing loading numbers on a new Kitfox Super Sport you will see that the shorter winged but lighter Speedster will compare to the heavier longer winged Super Sport. That's why you probably shouldn't put a shorter wing on a Super Sport, as the utility of the airplane would be compromised. Not that it wouldn't fly faster, because it most likely would (especially with a higher HP engine), but more because climb rate and stall would be compromised.

But what the heck it could maybe be worth it? John and Deb probably got nothing to do anyhow , so maybe they should think about making a 27 ft Riblett wing for that Super Sport STI, keeping the new extended gear so it looks like an old Monocoupe but trading in the big tundra tires for a nice big set of wheel pants, cleaning up every protruding thing they can find so as to reduce drag, shape the most beautiful faux round cowl ever seen, and put either a 914 or an 0-320 or 340 in it, and rename it the "Kitfox Coupe". Then scream around the country at an easy 145 mph showing it off at airshows and antiquer fly ins. I'll bet even in a soft economy they'd fill their order book pretty quick.

Ok, easy for me to say, as dreaming doesn't cost anything or require any building or design effort. But I really think a new super cool looking and relatively fast cross country Kitfox Speedster (excuse me, I meant to say Kitfox Coupe) based on a the newest Kitfox platform would be one hot airplane.

Ok, enough of my rambling...

[happiestflying]

So glad that this discussion covered STOL performance on the Speedster, as that's been on my mind recently. Just got the weather I need to go out and test it in the real world, but that's my flying objective this summer, to nail the STOL performance on my 100 HP Speedster.

[LORENZ]

Paul, can you compare the Speedster Kitfox 4 to the Avid MkIV Aerobatic.

My little hot rod is almost to the point of running and going throught the process of flying again after being mothballed for 20 years. Im a newer pilot and would love to find a CFI in San Diego to help get me to solo in her. I have 15ish hours in different GA aircraft, that frankly, never felt performed better than an SUV in the sky even under mynew hands.

Any CFI's in San Diego want a couple extra grand in thier pocket and willing to put the time in with me and my new baby?

[LORENZ]

New Rotax Rick 670

[LORENZ]

Almost read to fly again after 2 decades in hibernation.


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[avidflyer]

I believe the Avid aerobatic has a 24' wingspan. The Kitfox speedster has about the same wingspan as a standard length Avid wingspan. Avid standard length is 29' 10 1/2" Jim Chuk

[av8rps]

Congrats on your progress Shawn. I love the pic looking down at your house with the Avid in the yard. Beautiful country too.

I only flew two Avid Speedwings, aka as Aerobats. I liked the way they flew as they sure were sporty feeling with that 24 ft wing and the much quicker airfoil vs the STOL airfoil. Some complain they don't fly well, but I thought otherwise. The biggest thing is if you build them heavy they will feel like a heavy C-150 Cessna, therefore having little to no real STOL performance. But keep them under 600 lbs and they still have some of the Avid STOL left in them. I wouldn't hesitate to own one for a minute. I do however think for the average person they might enjoy the longer STOL wings more. But that is a simple fix of finding or building another set of wings, or just extending the speedwings (my last choice however).

To compare a Avid Speedwing to a Speedster is a bit hard as I never flew a 582 powered Speedster, and both Speedwing Avids were 582 powered. I think if the Avid had a 912 like the Speedster did it would probably be faster, but climb wouldnt be as good because the weight would negatively impact wing loading on that short 24 ft wing. Overall the Kitfox Speedster was compromised less than the Avid Speedwing by keeping the wingspan longer by almost 5 ft. So the Speedster will generally make a better STOL airplane. But again, with the Avid it is all about weight, lbs per square foot on that short wing. If one does the math on the two it would probably be the best way to know how they would compare. And personally, I like them both