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Thread: Short Field- FARM

  1. #11
    Senior Member Slyfox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Short Field- FARM

    this is my thoughts. I would go to thun field and take a demo flight. If you are still interested in flying, get your license. After getting your license and only then, decide what airplane you want and if you still think you want to fly out of this field of yours. Another thought, have someone come out and log all those trees. they have to be able to do it on the weekend. ha! I'm sure there will be an environmentalist close by to stop it, so get them down quick. doing this just might help you with the cost to learn how to fly. of course you could just learn to fly a helicopter and buy that instead. much easier to get into a place like that.
    steve
    slyfox
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  2. #12
    Senior Member HighWing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Short Field- FARM

    All good thoughts in my opinion. I find that for me, the more conservative thinking is more like mine, but I do have some other thoughts as well. A couple of examples have tempered my thinking somewhat. A good friend, Mark, Flew out of his 1000 ft. strip for years until he accurately measured it. From then on he flew out of his 700 ft. Strip. I flew over it many times, but never landed there. Then Hal's strip or rather the dirt road behind his house. Cut out of a fairly steep slope, dragging a wing tip was my first thought when I walked it, then the hump that defined the exact touch down spot. Land short and a hard bounce to go-around. Land precisely and presto - perfect. Land a bit long and maybe a go-around is possible. I know that when Hal had guests who wanted a ride in his early S-7 it was a short flight for him solo to a pick up spot to board his passenger then after the flight and deplaning the passenger it was Hal solo back home and his guest riding back in the car. I don't believe anyone other than Hal ever landed behind his house.

    The point: As every airplane is different, the guy with his hands on the throttle and stick is the biggest factor. Time,determination and ultimately skill will determine if it will work.
    Lowell Fitt
    Goodyear, AZ


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  3. #13
    Senior Member Slyfox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Short Field- FARM

    I was a little tough on post 11, but in the original post it talked of being a new pilot. Anyway, I know I could land in there no problem. main thing is to always do a 3 point landing, that will give you the slowest possible approach. be 50mph or less coming over the approach end, have your throttle to where it will be sloooow. like take your normal setting and back the throttle stops off another 1/2 on each carb slow. too much rpm and you will float forever, you don't want that for a short landing. when you are over the approach you back off the throttle, if you are good you will know how the feel is with the throttle, pull back on the stick and it will drop on the runway, like a pillow cus more than likely your tail is already draggin. your down, going real slow and you don't even need the brakes. that's my favorite landing type. wheel landings are for show offs and will cause big problems on a short field. not that I haven't done it, I can but if you want short, that's it. oh, love my flight adjustable prop also.

    now with talk of the sti wing and such, that would really be the ticket with 25 mph stall. that would be cool
    steve
    slyfox
    model IV 1200-flying
    912uls
    IVO medium in-flight
    RV7A-flying
    IO-360
    constant speed prop

  4. #14

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    Wink Re: Short Field- FARM

    Hello flying series 7 with 100 hp. Find friends with farm strips to practice on. I live in La Grande ore 2700' elevation and have several farm strips that I practice on. some with trees some with power lines.. Great to have friends. I bought a kf 4-1200 before I had my licence and learned to fly it in Caldwell Id. now have over 500 hrs and love the Snake river strips . We often go there on our way to see grandkids and are fairly heavy on some parts of the landing/takeoffs. The seven works real nice if you are willing to let it fly. The biggest problem I have had is trying to force the plane to perform before its ready.. Good example is a local strip called Minum Lodge ore. tall trees on both ends. I feel a need to get of ground and climb to soon every time and you must allow the aircraft to get ready before you pull up. A good instructor will really help you get over that... I always recommend you get a flight from a local instructor to see If you really like that type of flying. Mabey Paul at stick and rudder on some back woods strips...

  5. #15
    Senior Member av8rps's Avatar
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    Default Re: Short Field- FARM

    Quote Originally Posted by Lthrnek89 View Post
    I'm looking for some information regarding short field performance. (Snip)

    I have trees at both ends that are roughly 50 feet. and a gradual slope the long way across the field with 1200 feet between the treeline. (Snip, snip...)

    We live near an airfield and could top-off there- so I could fly lighter in and out. I would work out of the local airfield and some off-airport site to earn my experience before coming to the farm.

    Do-able? I think so- but I don't have any meaningful idea. SO I come to y'all- Thanks for sharing
    I definitely think your strip is "do-able". But you not only need some good experience before you tackle that demanding kind of flying, but you also need the right plane. The Model 4 through 7 Kitfox uses the cleaner, faster Riblett airfoil and is much harder to slow down than the earlier Kitfoxes and Avid Flyers that utilize the original Dean Wilson high lift, high undercamber, high drag airfoil.

    I have a Just Highlander (which has the Dean Wilson undercamber wing) as well as a Model 4 Kitfox, and the Highlander is definitely the one I would prefer to take into your strip. It will slow down better, quicker, and come down steeper than my Kitfox, without gaining too much speed. The Kitfox with the Riblett airfoil is cleaner aerodynamically, and consequently is much harder to slow down, which results in needing more runway length, especially if coming over obstacles like 50 ft trees.

    And for the record, I love my Model 4 Kitfox. But if I really have to go in short on a regular basis I would prefer the older undercambered airfoil. The older airfoil makes short runways with trees on both ends feel much longer

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Short Field- FARM

    That's some good stuff to know. I was just to the point of breaking in the new engine, 582, and winter set in. All my time is in various Piper tail draggers but I have yet to fly my IV. My strip is 36II here in Indiana, 1800' x 100'. It's now in and out to the south, but should be no issue. I think!

  7. #17

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    Talking Re: Short Field- FARM

    I think that if a B-25 can take off from a 467 foot carrier flight deck with 2,000 pounds in the "cargo sack" the WELL trained Kitfox pilot will be able to take off from his/her short field. However the B-25 pilots were well trained and made many practice flights on a much longer field before attempting the take off from a pitching and rolling runway. Sounds like extensive training with Stick & Rudder would be the place for a newbie or any "long runway Kitfox pilot" to get the short field training to prevent an aircraft accident report from being created. If you are new to flying don't forget to add the training cost to your build budget.

  8. #18
    Administrator DesertFox4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Short Field- FARM

    If the original poster could rotate his airstrip into a 30 knot headwind then accelerate his strip to 20 knots then I would agree. He would have his takeoff speed reduced by 50 knots like Gen. Doolittle and his Raiders. Also the Raiders didn’t have 50 foot trees to climb over at the end of the carrier. They could also drop 50 feet and pick badly needed speed before going swimming in the Pacific.
    That was one gutsy mission flown by genuine heros.🇺🇸🏅
    But I whole heartily agree that training and lots of experience is vital to operating out of high risk fields.👍


    DesertFox4
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  9. #19

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    Default Re: Short Field- FARM

    Thanks for all of the great information. Makes sense that my father-in-law flew a KF3 out of the farm years ago... trees were smaller then. I have reached out to Stick and Rudder regarding their training. I have also taken a discovery flight at Thun Field in Pierce County. Great flight in 172/180. I have also passed the GoldSeal online ground school and ready to take my written.

    My intent is to fly often- so cost have to be reasonable. We have barn space and can trailer to the nearby airfield. My wife and I have discussed this and if we get to the point where we want/need a larger aircraft (172), then we'll just rent one.

    Again-Thanks for all of the great information.

  10. #20

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    Default Re: Short Field- FARM

    I have to tell you. AV8RPS's advice is right on point. Best advice you'll get. I have 42ac, 1700' and 40' trees. Without already having my PP and 1,000+ UL hours behind me it would not have been a good thing to try. IV classic 582.

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