bounce/balloon

[mikegregory]

hi all , after some advice , i have a kitfox mk2 , with not many hours on it , i find in nil wind i can land quite well , but any headwind or cross wind & there not as good , i either bounce , or ballon , or both ! any tips ?? especially on ballooning , i have had conflicting advice on that bit , thanks in advance
mike

[tommg13780]

From my experience with the early Kitfoxes it seems that a consistent stall landing is very difficult to achieve. Particularly with the bungee gear. I found myself being able to do wheel landings that were much more satisfactory and seemed to work better for me especially when flying with a passenger at gross weight. Another thing that may appeal to you is a well executed wheel landing is somewhat of a status symbol amongst fellow tailwheel flyers. Not that we have any tendency to be show off's of course.

[Dravenelle]

what your tire pressure?

i have a mk2 with ballon and can land
on runway with no bounce

i put a little flap when i make my approach


David

[ackselle]

Practice.....once you're done, practice some more! After you've mastered the landing, keep practicing.

I've always found it interesting how the problems of the hardware go away with repetition.

[SkySteve]

Mike,
What is your Over the Fence IAS? Your Landing Spot IAS? I find that most landing problems are due to too much speed. One of the advantages of our airplanes is that they can fly very slow. If your plane is bouncing and/or ballooning it is still flying, probably caused by excessive speed. For a comparison, I usually come over the fence at around 40 mph IAS and hit my landing spot about 35 mph IAS.

[jonstark]

I bought a 1947 Stinson 108-2 and was having a lot of difficulty getting consistent landings even with 50+ hours in type. I just couldn't get it every time no matter what. -but- On a cross country trip from Los Angeles to Tampa I flew into some heavy rain and got the pitot system full of water. I had no airspeed indication. I started to nail the landings! Feel the aircraft.

Similarly, I installed a STOL kit on my 180 and was having trouble getting full stall landings timed perfectly and was bouncing and ballooning. I figured out that the lower landing speed had robbed me of elevator authority and decided to install VGs. Like power steering! Acts like vernier control of pitch now. Still blow plenty landings due to being less than current but the VGs helped dramatically.

jon

[mikegregory]

thanks to all , most appreciated ,
drav , the tyres are around 8lbs , about right i think ? im curious you use flap on a mk 2 ?? i was told that on mk1 & 2 , if you used flaps for landings , you couldnt get the nose high enough for a 3 pionter on touch down ???
steve , wow that seems slow ?? id be worried about stalling at the speed ? i come in over the hedge at 55mph , not sure about touchdown as i never look !! i have tried it slower , but am worried about it dropping out the sky ??

[Dravenelle]

sorry for my poor english

for flap i pull just un little bit... approx 1" on flap handle
and i have a lot elevator to flare
(i have 25 deg up elevator)

8 pounds inflate tire is good

for a great landing is try and try to feel your kitfox

if you land only on runway...is more difficult try to land on a good
grass runway is more easy to land and feel your aircraft

my approach speed is 45 mhp ...
david

[Danzer1]

Mike,

Sounds like you don't have much time in it. Before trying anything suggested, on an actual landing, I'd suggest exploring your planes handling characteristics at altitude first! Including the stall (envelope) edges. If uncomfortable, have an instructor go with you - no harm in learning more from someone else - and safer too.

Sounds like you may be coming in a little fast for a 2 and it still wants to fly. Do you use any flaps? Are you bouncing on both wheels at the same time? or does it walk at all? Is your approach angle to steep?

On your good landings does the tail come down quick or slow and can you keep the tail planted on the ground shortly after touch or do you have to hold down for quite a while?

Greg

[SkySteve]

Mike,
I very much agree that you need to practice at altitude. You also need to know where your plane stalls with no flap, half flap and full flap. My plane stalls at 32 mph indicated with full flaps. I almost always land with full flaps. Half flaps at 70 mph indicated (on down wind). Full flaps on short final, then dump the flaps right after touch down. I have literally spent several hours flying with full flaps at 35 mph indicated, not letting the plane loose any altitude, just getting the feel of my plane, at altitude, turning 360's, 180's, S turns, straight and level, etc. to get to know her.