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Thread: Thinking of buying

  1. #1
    Senior Member Esser's Avatar
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    Default Thinking of buying

    Hello all, after lurking here for a couple weeks I thought I would introduce myself. I'm Josh and I'm battling logic over emotion for buying a kitfox kit. I saw them online but after seeing them at Oshkosh I really looked into them and they really seem to fit the bill for everything I want in a plane I have been plane shopping for the last 5 months but have been debating between a 170 and a Luscombe 8E. I want a light on the controls fun to fly taildragger(Luscombe) and I want something that I can camp out of and bring decent loads(170). And I don't want to pay over $80,000 if I can avoid it. The Kitfox seems to fit the bill and more. I think I would really enjoy building it as well as flying it. But like I said above, I am battling the whole logic vs emotion which I'm sure some of you have done. My biggest issue is time. I work out of town for 2 weeks and then my company flies me home for one week off. So I do have time but as you can imagine that time gets eaten quick but I'm sure I can make time. I plan on visiting the factory in September or October and going for a flight and seeing what happens. From what I've read on here I should have a cheque made out because one flight and most people are sold. My question for who ever has been in a similiar place as me before, what made you decide to go for and build your own plane? The good news is my girlfriend is completely for it. She flies a PC12 and a Merdian for a living so she thinks its great(as long as I don't neglect her too much.)

    Another question I have for you. How are the rotax motors after overhaul? I went on the Canadian distributers website and they are offering 914's factory overhauled at a price only a couple thousand more than the 912ULS. Would this be worth it or is it a stay away from item?

    I live on the Canadian/US Border so I would probably get the plane shipped to our sister city in Michigan. For those of you who have used Partain, would it be easy to move everything from their trailer into a uhaul truck? It would save me lots of money if I could do it that way.

    I have a huge shop but it is too big to heat in the winter(110'X90') but I have a partioned heated electrical room with double doors that is 12X20ish. Would that be large enough to pull what ever i was working on at the time into that room to work on. So if I was working on the fuselage, pull it in there, or if i was working on the wings, push the fuselage out of the small room into the shop and bring the wings in. Or do you think that room would be too cozy to be productive?

    Thanks for all your time!

  2. #2
    Senior Member t j's Avatar
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    Wink Re: Thinking of buying

    Folding wings was the deciding factor for me. That made it affordable to me.

    On the shipping. Are you sure about that? There is a free trade agreement between US and Canada. Aircraft parts are not subject to tarriff. I checked when I shipped my Rotax engine to a rotax service shop in Edmonton. That was in 2000 and I paid only $40 to have it inspected by a contractor at the border but that was a scam n my opinion. Might want to call customs to be sure.

    Edit to add a story: I too was trying to decide so went to the old Skystar factory in 1994 for a flight in the famous flourescent model 4 speedster with Patrick Rediker. That sold me and I told the salesman assigned to give me the tour that I was ready to order one but needed to talk it over with my wife first. He--did--not--want--me--to--leave--that--day--without putting--down--a--deposit! I'm sure he had heard that story before and the spouse probably spoiled the deal. I told him my wife likes airplanes and she will not object but it is our way to talk about a purchase first. He sure was frowning when I climbed back into my Cherokee to fly home.
    Last edited by t j; 08-09-2011 at 06:52 PM.
    Tom Jones
    Classic 4 builder

  3. #3
    Senior Member War Eagle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking of buying

    The 914 from Rotec Research Canada is a zero timed engine. I think the engines mostly come from the military drone program. The drone engines that I have seen have the turbo mounted on top of the engine and use a fuel injected configuration.

    The whole engine is dismantled and completely gone through. Everything is brought to factory new specs. Turbo and exhaust are changed to mount below the engine like the stock 914 configuration seen at any of the product display showing the Rotax family of engines. The fuel injected system is removed and the carb system and manifolds are installed.

    I have purchased three zero timed 914's from them. I went up to their facility before my purchase and was amazed at the testing that is done on the engine after it is zero timed. If you have any concerns then I would suggest you make an appointment and go see them and their facilities. I was very impressed and would be surprised if you weren't convinced of their capabilities.

    The engines have been very good performers but you need to understand they are more complex than the 912 series engines and will require more attention to operating parameters and maintenance than the 912 series.
    Even with this complexity, I would choose the 914 all over again.

    But if the 914 is your choice then I would say that you won't find a better deal for zero timed engine.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Esser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking of buying

    Quote Originally Posted by t j View Post

    On the shipping. Are you sure about that? There is a free trade agreement between US and Canada. Aircraft parts are not subject to tarriff. I checked when I shipped my Rotax engine to a rotax service shop in Edmonton. That was in 2000 and I paid only $40 to have it inspected by a contractor at the border but that was a scam n my opinion. Might want to call customs to be sure.
    The saving on shipping is mostly related to broker fees and a lot of shipping companies avoid the hassle unless it's worth their while $$$. While they are not subject to tarriffs you still have to pay tax at the border and they charge a premium for that since they have to put money up front for you. I could get it shipped to where I live, but since I live so close it wouldn't be much hassle to meet a driver in Michigan.


    War Eagle: Thanks for the great info. By the sounds of it. Rotec has lots of these engines available?

  5. #5
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking of buying

    Here is what sold me on Kitfox:
    • Brand new plane for the same price as a very used certified aircraft.
    • Folding wings so I can share hanger space.
    • Kit quality and aircraft performance.
    • Factory support.
    • Test flight was awsome.
    • STOL capabilities.
    • No welding and nearly no solid riveting.
    • Rotax 912s engine reputation and fuel economy-about half the burn rate at cruise compared to most certified Cessnas, Pipers, etc. and the ability to use auto fuel.
    • Build manual is the best out there.
    • A factory visit impressed me with their organization, neatness, cleanliness, fixtures. A class outfit.
    • Side by side seating.
    • Useful load capacity.
    • A long successful and safe history. 3500+ planes built and flying I beleive.
    • A very beautiful and pleasing to the eye airplane. Just look at some of the slab sided, breadbox looking competitors out there.
    • No, I am not a salesman for the McBeans.
    Yes, I think a 12'x 20' work area would be fine for working on a wing or fuse one at a time, especially since you can store parts and pieces out of the way in the unheated part of your shop. I wish I had that luxury.

    Jim

  6. #6

    Default Re: Thinking of buying

    Factory fly in is labor day weekend there will be lots food planes and fun check out the web site.
    Dj Series 6

  7. #7
    Senior Member Esser's Avatar
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    Default

    jiott, I think you convinced me. Maybe you should be a salesman for the McBean's. Although, I am glad to hear that my little room will work for the cold. Months.

    I would love to go to the factory fly in but unfortunately I'll be at the job that pays for those things. Some time between Sept 13th and 20th would be the soonest I can do it. It will be a fairly last minute thing I imagine. I'll fly down on a weekday so I don't put anyone out.

    Looks like I'll probably be going down to the factory near the start of October but I can't make a solid plan and tell John I'm coming until fairly last minute due to some scheduling stuff going on at work. But I do have a question for all you experienced folk out there.
    For the firewall forward kits. Is it smart to buy that with the kit if you know which engine you want? Or is it best to wait until you place you engine order incase you change your mind.

    This should be posted in the electrical forum but who here has install the Dynon Skyview and what do you like/not liek about it?

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