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Thread: Landing gear choices...

  1. #11
    Senior Member jmodguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing gear choices...

    jiott
    I understand the loyalty to the Grove gear but drop tests really don't prove the strength of a landing gear. Landing stresses are not a direct upward force. There is a rearward vector force that gets added into the equation. I am not a math geek but the Vans nose gear is a perfect example of this. there's a youtube video that shows a very light (~200 lbs) vector force is all it takes to bend a Vans nose gear enough to throw these planes on their backs. See antisplat.
    It would definitely be interesting to do some actual tests to compare the Grove vs cabane gear vector forces but that would require the sacrifice of a few fuselages. We both know that probably won't happen...
    That said, the cabane gear is a few inches taller so I am going that route.
    Regards
    Jeff
    Jeff
    KF 5
    340KF

  2. #12
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing gear choices...

    I still stand by my opinion that the Grove gear is stronger in any vector force direction you want, and remember Grove will build you special gear with longer legs. Please take all my comments with the good intentions they are given. I'm not trying to argue or beat you over to my way of thinking, just responding back and forth to your comments. Good luck with your choice.
    Jim Ott
    Portland, OR
    Kitfox SS7 flying
    Rotax 912ULS

  3. #13
    Senior Member jmodguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing gear choices...

    No offense taken!
    It would be interesting to see an actual real world test though... I spent a couple years in an environmental test lab where we tested equipment of all sorts on shaker tables, drop shock, hammer shock, salt fog, freezing rain, explosive atmosphere, and temps from 150 F to -60 F.
    Some of the things you expect to see will surprise you, and some things you don't expect!
    Regards
    Jeff
    Jeff
    KF 5
    340KF

  4. #14

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    Default Re: Landing gear choices...

    Although not directly related to Kitfox's, here is a good video of Van's landing gear drop tests for their new RV-14 (conventional gear model) and RV-14A (tricycle gear model). It gives one an idea of what conditions should be considered in the design and test of the gear.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbFM...ature=youtu.be

    As a side note, Grove has made an aluminum main gear for the RV-8 for a couple of decades with no problems noted.
    Last edited by RV8JD; 05-25-2016 at 04:03 PM.

  5. #15
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing gear choices...

    I agree, thorough comparison testing would be great, however I doubt we will ever see it done. In the meantime my opinions are drawn from what I have seen on this forum thru the years and from a little firsthand knowledge. In all cases that I have read about or seen of Kitfox landing gear damage/breakage from hard or bad landings (not counting "crashes" where other major damage occurred) that could not be repaired by some simple rebending, it was always the cabane style with bungees or possibly springs. Haven't seen anything yet on the new monster shock style cabanes. The very few Grove gear damage reports (that I saw) were always some simple bending that looked to me like it wasn't enough of a collapse to drop a wingtip to the ground. Paul Leadabrand at Stick & Rudder has a very high opinion of the Grove gear for his student pilots (including me) who make some very bad landings on many occasions.

    Again, this is just my observations over the 6+ years I have been monitoring this site and Kitfoxes in general. I will have to say that it was the Grove gear option that was one of the big factors in my original choice of going with a Kitfox. I very likely do not have a complete story on this and would like to hear from others who have experienced landing gear damage with either Grove or other types. All in the spirit of the title of this thread.
    Jim Ott
    Portland, OR
    Kitfox SS7 flying
    Rotax 912ULS

  6. #16
    Senior Member Esser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing gear choices...

    My only issue with the grove is it's heeeaaaavy

    It's probably 45lbs. Easily the heaviest thing on the plane after the engine.
    ------------------
    Josh Esser
    Flying SS7
    Rotax 914iS
    AirMaster Prop

    Edmonton, AB, CWL3

  7. #17
    Senior Member AirFox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing gear choices...

    The shock Monster gear looks good to me. Anyone know how much lighter it is than the Grove?

  8. #18
    Super Moderator Av8r3400's Avatar
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    Default Re: Landing gear choices...

    Quote Originally Posted by Esser View Post
    My only issue with the grove is it's heeeaaaavy

    It's probably 45lbs. Easily the heaviest thing on the plane after the engine.
    After converting my Yellow plane from bungee gear/Douglass-ATV wheels and tires to Grove gear, double puck Grove brakes and Desser 21x800-6 tires the total weight gain (re-doing the weight and balance) was 12 pounds. Well worth it, IMO.

    I could cut out the doughnuts and cheezeburgers and get that 12# back, but I probably won't…

    No offense to the choice of the Cabine style gear, but I have seen several planes damaged by not to hard landings with (other than Kitfox made) spring-style cabine gear. The longerons are not meant to take the lateral stress put on them when the spring bottoms out. I have no experience with the Kitfox made gear or with the gas type dampers.
    Last edited by Av8r3400; 05-25-2016 at 08:16 PM.
    Av8r3400
    Kitfox Model IV
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  9. #19

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    Default Re: Landing gear choices...

    I had the opportunity to see firsthand a completely destroyed Kitfox IV that went in after an aborted takeoff. The plane crashed nose down right wing low from about 50'. The Grove gear was folded under and ripped from the mounts. It was determined during salvage that the right leg was only slightly bent. I'm now of the opinion that the Grove is 5x overkill strength wise. If one does a lot of really awful hard landings as standard procedure the Grove gear makes perfect sense. It could maybe even be transferred over to a replacement plane at some point

  10. #20

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    Default Re: Landing gear choices...

    Here's a look at the plane when it was listed with AIG. Click pdf file at top.

    htt://www.aigaviation.com/aviationsalvage/SalvagePictures.aspx?FileName=N998DS.pdf&Extension =pdf&Type=p&PictureId=5988

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