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Thread: First Timer' Annoying Questions

  1. #21
    Senior Member aviator79's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Timer' Annoying Questions

    At the risk of turning this thread into a bunch of stories about how we all came to be where we are, I'll share my story, as it parallels yours, at least to a point.

    I started flying when I was 16. The Civil Air Patrol gave me a scholarship to get me through my first solo flight. After that, I took a job mopping hangar floors, scrubbing oily bellies, and pumping gas to fund my flight training. The place I worked had a couple super cubs, and the first thing I did after getting my Private cert was to get a tailwheel endorsement in those cubs (N57528 and N4101E, my first true loves in aviation.) There was a rich and vibrant homebuilt and aerobatics community at KCHD, and I dreamed of building a plane some day. When I graduated High School, I spent a semester at Embry-Riddle in Prescott, AZ. Unfortunately, tragedy in my family left me unable to afford Embry-Riddle, so I went back to Chandler, got my job at the airport back, and started school at Arizona State while working on my additional ratings. I earned my CFI and started working as an instructor while I finished my degree. I was so poor, but dang those were fun times. I graduated in May 2001, and in August 2001, at age 22, got hired with American Eagle. It turns out that August of 2001 was a really bad time to try to start an airline career...

    So, I did some instructing again, but the industry was in pretty bad shape. I also had a brief glimpse into the life of an airline pilot, and decided that maybe it wasn't what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. So I went back to school, got a whole pile of degrees while working various jobs and internships, getting married and sprouting a couple kids. Then, I finally got my first "real" job here in Los Alamos, NM just about 5 years ago. During those 5 years, I helped get a flying club started up here, and finally, at age 39, find myself in a position where I can afford the expenditure of both time and money to build a Kitfox.

    It was not something I rushed into. It took a whole lot of planning on how it would fit into my every aspect of my life. It has to fit in my garage, but also into my finances, and into my relationships with my wife and my kids.

    I do think that in terms of timing, getting an airplane built before you have kids will make managing your time a little easier, and you'll have an brand new airplane to fly for most of your life. Getting and early start is great. If you're moving in with your girlfriend, it's serious enough that you should not be too flippant about how this affects her and your relationship with her. You should make sure that building an airplane is something she is fully on board with, and that she understands the time and money that you intend to spend on it.

    Also, even though it sounds like you are eager, it also sounds like one year from now, many unknown variables in your life will become known. You'll know where you stand with your student loans, your house will be sold, and you'll actually have a workable space in which to build. You'll never get that hangar rent back, and your progress will likely be slow if you have a 30 minute drive each way to get to your project. On the one hand, if you wait until the "perfect" time to start, you'll be outside the fence looking and dreaming forever. On the other hand, one year, in the grand scheme, is a trivially short amount of time to spend tying up loose ends and planning for a large expenditure of time and money.

    Just my $0.02, and I'm a long way off from being able to claim that I have any special knowledge about how to successfully complete a build.
    --Brian
    Flying - S7SS

  2. #22
    Far_Fox's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Timer' Annoying Questions

    Wow, so similar to my journey. Funny how things work out, Aviator79!

    I wish we had some of your weather in Michigan. You will have many more beautiful days for flying when yours is complete. I for some reason cannot get the map forums to load (think its my internet blocker in my office) but would like to see if anyone else is from Michigan on here.

    Thanks for sharing man-

  3. #23

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    Default Re: First Timer' Annoying Questions

    I hate to even mention this as I admire your dreams and aspirations. What happens if you and your girlfriend split the sheets a year from now? Would you still be able to make ends meet?

    Not suggesting that you let a fear of 'what if' run your life. Just hoping that a parting of the ways would not be a deal killer for you.

  4. #24
    Senior Member aviator79's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Timer' Annoying Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by HighWing View Post
    Brian,
    First a question then a couple of stories:

    The question - How do you define "successfully"?

    Story 1 - I am a retired dentist, I was "unsuccessfully" - as I presume the word is used, sued twice in 40 years. Both times, I was exonerated. However, thankfully, I had malpractice insurance that covered all legal expenses.

    Story 2 - A good friend and nearby Model V builder once developed a residential air park with 5 acre parcels surrounding an improved air strip. One of the persons who purchased a parcel and flew there had a wife who was into horses. It didn't take long for her to start making noise about the aircraft noise that disturbed her horses. She made demands that limits on flying hours or certain noise restrictions be instituted. These were rejected which prompted a law suit. As Leo told me the story, he had few financial resources at this time to defend himself against the lawsuit so he "Walked away".

    I am not trying to be argumentative, but would seriously like a definition of the word "successful" as used in these very frequent commentaries. For me, at least, it would be much more informative, if some data was available regarding the number of lawsuits that have been "unsuccessfully" filed and the typical cost of "successfully" defending them. I write this because I am getting along in years with some fairly common physical issues that might require me to focus my energies on something else in the not too distant future and I think of the issue a lot. In other words, would the $35,000 my Model IV is likely worth on today's market be worth the risk of possibly losing a significant portion of that or possibly more in "successfully" defending a lawsuit.
    This is a very good point Lowell, and EAA's defintion of "unsuccessful" may include those settled out of court. And it could definitely ruin someone to defend himself legally, even if the legal outcome were in his favor. I have not heard of, nor can I find, any anecdotes of this happening, much less an aggregated list that I would call data.

    The poster was told he could not sell his airplane, and all evidence is to the contrary. Amateur-built aircraft are sold routinely. The practical reality is that if you aren't insured against such a claim, you are *probably* a small legal target. But as you point out, it's always worth recognizing that there is nothing you can do to completely absolve yourself of liability if you sell someone something with which he can kill or maim himself. Caveat Venditor
    --Brian
    Flying - S7SS

  5. #25
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    Default Re: First Timer' Annoying Questions

    I'll jump in on this since I am in the same boat as the original poster. I'm 26, just received my private pilot license in June of '17 and have been dying to own/build a plane for quite awhile. Though the Kitfox wasn't something that immediately jumped out at me, one came available locally and after some thought and a ton of research, it was apparent that it was a deal that couldn't be passed up and this plane would be the IDEAL aircraft to own/build at this stage in my life.

    At this point, I purchased a Model IV kit in virtually an unstarted state back in Nov '17, a week before my 26th birthday. I'm engaged and getting married in May '18. To top it all off, I'm an active duty member of the U.S. Coast Guard and we will be moving in April '18. To make matters worse, I will be attending Naval Flight Training to become a Coast Guard aviator. So to say that I've thrown myself into a hurricane of life changing events would be quite an understatement.

    The BIGGEST thing I used to measure the risk associated with building an aircraft in a turbulent point of life is/was support from my fiancée. When my CFI met her, he IMMEDIATELY started pulling her into our "airplane-world" and was able to "sell" flying to her as a fun activity that was meant to be enjoyed in GROUPs. We both attended Osh '17 and LOVED it and she got extremely excited about the thought of building after attending some workshops. She didn't have much interest in aviation until we met but that has very much changed. I may say "I" a lot when referring to this build, but in reality it should be "we." If your girlfriend shows even the tiniest bit of interest in aviation, get her onboard and get her excited-Oshkosh is a PERFECT chance for that-and turn it into a group project and learn together rather than a single man's game. My fiancée plans to start Sport Pilot training after our wedding and get some confidence in an aircraft so that it is something that she continues to enjoy and be excited about rather than an activity that her new husband does behind a closed garage door.

    As for the build, I can't tell you much about the process yet. I've spent about 60hrs just cleaning/inventorying/identifying what's missing. I’ve purchased a new build manual from Kitfox and ordered all new AN hardware that has been sitting on the plane for the past 20years. We will start full speed ahead after our wedding with a goal to have her flying by my 30th birthday. We plan to blog our build really as a means to share it with those who have been with us from the start, but also as a means to document and learn (and hopefully help someone else).

    TL;DR-Get your woman involved and make it a team goal, not an individual goal. A group of likeminded individuals who share a common goal is a lot more productive/innovative than just a group of individuals.

  6. #26
    Far_Fox's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Timer' Annoying Questions

    I hate to even mention this as I admire your dreams and aspirations. What happens if you and your girlfriend split the sheets a year from now? Would you still be able to make ends meet?
    Yes, I would just move into the hanger! Haha. No I am joking, yes I have a back up plan for that though...

    Plan A: Get another house with 2 car garage.
    Plan B: Purchase some land big enough to land a plane and build a modern hangerloft. It will become the new tiny house trend but for pilots. little house, nice hanger all in one. Wake up, fly, be free, love life.

    If we split all would be good, then I could actually let the dogs sleep in the bed again as well. Man, maybe I have some thinking to do here, Ramos!

  7. #27

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    Default Re: First Timer' Annoying Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Far_Fox View Post
    Yes, I would just move into the hanger! Haha. No I am joking, yes I have a back up plan for that though...

    Plan A: Get another house with 2 car garage.
    Plan B: Purchase some land big enough to land a plane and build a modern hangerloft. It will become the new tiny house trend but for pilots. little house, nice hanger all in one. Wake up, fly, be free, love life.

    If we split all would be good, then I could actually let the dogs sleep in the bed again as well. Man, maybe I have some thinking to do here, Ramos!

    Sounds to me like you have your house in order and your head in a good place! Best of luck in all things, in the air and on the ground.

  8. #28
    Far_Fox's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Timer' Annoying Questions

    Those are some really good points Fathom, I am hoping to get her to Osh this year but she has already said no three times. I know once she experiences it she will love it...at least I hope. Good luck with yours, please message me if you post videos I will follow-

  9. #29
    Senior Member efwd's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Timer' Annoying Questions

    LOL! your last sentence. startin with "If we split". I like you already. Welcome to the site!
    Last edited by efwd; 03-06-2018 at 12:43 PM. Reason: incomplete

  10. #30
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    Default Re: First Timer' Annoying Questions

    I turn 50 this year and can tell you there is never the right time. Just frickin’ go for it.

    The one thing I’ll add is I wish you didn’t have to go into debt on a kit. Living life by the payment is the biggest regret of my earlier years. Once I figured that out I finally felt I was living life instead of getting through life.

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