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Old 11-14-2014, 02:11 PM   #11
Lynn Matteson
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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Default Re: I still need float-rigging info

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Z View Post
Here is a You tube video on a Kitfox guy installing his floats this may help. I've never flown on floats so I am not sure if this is what you need. I finally watched the entire video, thank goodness he finally put on a shirt!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9y9ct0MndA
That video is worse than useless for "rigging" a set of floats. It may be ok for installing them but rigging involves planning the position, measuring the location, cutting the various struts and spreader bars, etc. I haven't seen such shakey camera work since I was in film school. : )

Lynn
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Old 11-14-2014, 02:20 PM   #12
Lynn Matteson
 
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Default Re: I still need float-rigging info

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Originally Posted by av8rps View Post
Hi Lynn,

I can't help but respond after Larry's intro

So first things first, what zenair floats are you trying to install?...Paul
I have the 1150A (amphib) floats, going on a 660 lb. Kitfox IV, with Jabiru 2200 engine (modified) with Prince P-tip prop (64 x 30) currently, and it climbs at 900-1200 fpm.

Lynn
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Old 11-14-2014, 05:20 PM   #13
av8rps
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Default Re: I still need float-rigging info

That is a great climb with the Jab 2200 engine. Previously I would have tried to discourage a jab 2200 amphib as unfortunately I've never seen one work well on floats. But it sounds from your performance numbers that yours could be the exception. And frankly, I would love to see one done to prove it will work, as that is a really sweet motor imho. Oh, and you also picked a great set of amphibs for the model 4. So if we can get this rigging right you'll be hanging out with the seaplane crowd before you know it.

Give me 3 or 4 days to come up with some numbers for you. I'm pretty sure I can get you pretty close to where you need to be with the rigging. Plus I'll try to show you how to make your rigging adjustable if you need to make some minor changes later.

There could be a quite a bit of information by the time I get done. Would you like for me to email it to you, or would you prefer I post it here?

Paul S

Last edited by av8rps; 11-14-2014 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 11-14-2014, 06:11 PM   #14
Lynn Matteson
 
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Default Re: I still need float-rigging info

That's great information coming from you, as I regard your opinion highly...from what I've seen here and in speaking to you personally....back in about 2005 or so at the seaplane base at Oshkosh.

You won't remember this, Paul, but I spoke with you about flying a short-wing Kitfox with a Jabiru 85 hp engine and you said that it would take a long-wing and probably 100 hp to get off the water succesfully. At that time, I was just building the plane, and pretty much gave up on the float idea back then.

By now, I've got 1595 hours on me and the plane, and have become bored with just flying around the patch (and around the country, from California to New York with this plane) and I needed a project to get my juices flowing again. I had just finished helping restore John Cuny's Republic Seabee....Grand Champion Seaplane this year....for the past 2 years, and I needed a project of my own. Over the past years of flying with the 2200 Jabiru, I have built tuned exhaust pipes for it, a large-plenum intake manifold with long tuned intake runners, and an Electroair ignition system. With all these mods, I got to thinking that maybe I might be getting close to that magic 100 hp that you said would be necessary for float operation. So that's the background behind this latest project of mine. It would be great to get the rigging such that it would be adjustable. My local mentor, Brian Vanwagnen, has already suggested that I do away with the "X" braces that Zenair supplies, which are cable, and I've started to make these from SS rod, 1/4" diameter. And I have built the floats using solid, driven rivets in place of the "pop" rivets that they provide.

Probably email would be the way to go, unless the moderators feel that your provided information would be of benefit to others, and in that case, posting here would be fine.

Lynn (lynnmatt@jps.net)
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Old 11-14-2014, 09:07 PM   #15
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Default Re: I still need float-rigging info

Lynn and Paul, If you don't mind sharing, I think this would be good information to share openly with the Kitfox Community…

Please post any details here.
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Old 11-15-2014, 07:14 AM   #16
av8rps
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Default Re: I still need float-rigging info

I remember talking with you.

By chance have you ever done a thrust test on your plane? Just curious, as that is even more important than the actual horsepower for flying floats.

And I may have changed my opinion some about the short wing. A standard Just Highlander makes for a really good seaplane, yet the wing area is less than a standard Kitfox wing. So I'm thinking it is probably more equivalent to a Kitfox Speedster's wing area. If true, then the shorter Kitfox wing should work just fine. At least that's my current take on things right now

I'll try to post what I come up with here on the forum rather than an email since the group is interested.
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Old 11-15-2014, 12:27 PM   #17
Lynn Matteson
 
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Default Re: I still need float-rigging info

Your take on the wing area is good news, as I haven't wanted to re-build the wings out to standard Kitfox size. I have the sawed-off (by a previous owner of the [then] unfinished plane) sections, but being as I have installed anchor nuts for mounting the wing tips, it would be a bummer to have to do that job over again.

I haven't done a thrust test, but I've often thought about it. Being a "numbers" kind of guy, I have often wondered what I was producing hp-wise, but never bought the pull tester that (for one) Valley Engineering sells. Maybe I will look into that, as I have got the floats just about as far as I can go with them, building-wise, and running out of things to do before it becomes time to strap on the skis...(for the plane, not for my feet). : )

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Old 11-16-2014, 07:09 AM   #18
av8rps
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Default Re: I still need float-rigging info

Lynn,

Don't go out and buy a tester on my account. I was just curious what the 2200 modified would do. I doubt you would have gone so far as to build a set of amphib floats if you didn't think they would work.

It's actually pretty simple; if you think your jabiru speedster will compare at all with a rotax speedster performance wise, it's probably going to work on floats similarly. So we just need to get those floats on to figure it out.

The biggest question I have about this is if your existing prop will have enough thrust being that it is so short? It would be interesting to talk with either jabiru or lonnie prince to see if you could run a longer prop. I've heard of guys with jabs running 64 and 68 inch props with success. But again, that's just my idea. Your existing prop might be just fine.

Paul
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Old 11-16-2014, 07:31 AM   #19
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Default Re: I still need float-rigging info

I don't know if you have spoken with or are aware of these people - Harbour Sport Aviation , I ran across their website last winter when searching the net for float options. They might be able to help you out .
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Old 11-16-2014, 07:53 PM   #20
Paul Z
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Default Re: I still need float-rigging info

http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/fo...tallation.html

http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...Rigging-floats

http://www.zenairfloats.com/rigging.html
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