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Thread: Help, I think I soiled my carburetor.

  1. #11
    Senior Member cap01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help, I think I soiled my carburetor.

    dorsal . i think my tanks were circa 1991 - 1992 . i replaced one last winter and ill do the other next winter . besides the alcohol issue i needed larger tanks , i originally had two 6 gal tanks . just not enough gas to go anywhere and get back without refueling .
    have you scheduled your inspection yet . must be getting close .
    chuck
    kitfox IV 1050
    912ul warpdrive
    flying B , yelm, wa

  2. #12
    Senior Member akarmy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help, I think I soiled my carburetor.

    Very similar to the vintage of my series 7 tanks, which were made just 6 months before the switchover to the different resin. Oh well, someday in the future we all will have a tank replacement party... or they will finally give us some alcohol free unleaded at the airport!
    Andy Karmy
    Kitfox 7 - 912S - SOLD
    Auburn, WA

    http://kitfoxflying.com

  3. #13
    Senior Member cap01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help, I think I soiled my carburetor.

    andy , we were getting alcohol free gas right by the auburn airport at the station that sold the trick gas , untill a few months ago . sadly they dont handle it anymore . another holdout gave in .
    chuck
    kitfox IV 1050
    912ul warpdrive
    flying B , yelm, wa

  4. #14

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    Default Re: Help, I think I soiled my carburetor.

    Fuel Filters. I would suggest that anyone using mogas to not use paper fuel filters. They will clog with this residue. I've been flying my Trike for 10 years now on mogas. I have a poly tank and see through blue fuel lines that I change every year. Haven't had any problems with this set up. The Fox now, well, it has fiberglass tanks and I will either run 100ll or fine a gas station that carries non-ethanol when the time come to fire it up. There are a few stations in Pa. that offer non-ethanol gasoline.
    One of the guys in our EAA chapter works in the petroleum industry. He says you can order a tank load of non-ethanol right from the refinery. Only problem is that you will have to find a place for 3k gallons of the stuff. The gasoline suppliers get a tax break if they put the ethanol in at the time of delivery so expect to pay more for non-ethanol fuel. Other than that, it is a useless venture all around.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Dorsal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help, I think I soiled my carburetor.

    Next Chapter, clean carbs now what.
    Turns out the brown sticky stuff coated the inside surface of both wing tanks, both tanks had been rinsed before installation but that had little effect on this stuff. Very fortunately for me Andrew G wanted to come up and see my plane offering to help with what ever was the task of the day. With his help we took a wing off and sloshed the tank with 1/2 gallon of acetone. Draining this into a white bucket revealed a mixture with the color of "slightly" weak coffee. Doing this twice more resulted in weak tea, then basically clear, we then sloshed with a gallon of clean fuel just for good measure. Did the second wing (about two hours per wing, THANK YOU Andrew) let them dry and further inspection showed no sign of the schmutz by finger or eye.
    My conclusion is that the offending material was probably mold release that was not fully flushed out when the tanks where made and the whole affair is not related to Mo-Gas. I strongly recommend that if you have tanks of this vintage you run your finger inside them, any sense of stickiness/tackiness follow the procedure above, this stuff will stop your engine.

    Back on track, looking for inspection next week.
    Last edited by Dorsal; 06-20-2010 at 04:29 AM.
    Dorsal ~~^~~
    Series 7 - Tri-Gear
    912 ULS Warp Drive

  6. #16

    Default Re: Help, I think I soiled my carburetor.

    Dorsal, glad to help... yours was the first Kitfox I have ever seen up close... what a beauty... the design is ingenious and your attention to detail and well-thought-out avionics program are A+. Can't wait to see you fly it...

    PS, the acetone rinse was a smart solution... the Kitfox folks may want to add your fuel tank story to their "things to check before you install the tank in the wing" list...

    PSS, I thought that the Kitfox build manual was second to none... the McBeans could teach the barbecue grill people a thing or two about how to put things together... ; )
    Last edited by Andrew G; 06-19-2010 at 05:34 PM.

  7. #17
    Administrator DesertFox4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help, I think I soiled my carburetor.

    My conclusion is that the offending material was probably mold release that was not fully flushed out when the tanks where made and the whole affair is not related to Mo-Gas.
    Dorsal. I'm not buying your conclusion and don't think you should proceed as if you've solved anything. Yet.

    I developed no problems with any contamination during Phase 1 (40 plus hours of 100 LL use).
    First fill of auto gas I used up in the same day. Next topping off with alcohol auto fuel sat in the tanks for 3-4 days. That's when damage was done. It turned the resign , not release agent, soft inside my tanks. After restoring both carbs , rinsing and going back to AV-gas I've had no recurrence and the tank resigns seemed to revert after rinsing and drying back to the correct state. I checked carefully and frequently. No leaks from the incident either. Luckily. Could your situation be different than mine. Maybe. But what if they are related? You may get airborne before it stops your engine this time.

    I guess the only way to know is to repeat the process. Just be mentally prepared if the problem appears again. Keep Andrew close by. He knows the procedure now so no training required.
    Proceed with caution. I know you will.


    P.S. Something else to think about during first flights.
    I did find glass fibers in my fuel filters for about 15- 20 hours into the test flight phase. I watched this carefully as others advised me this could occur. I changed filters twice during my 2- 3 hours of ground runs(finding the most fibers during this period) and immediately prior to first flight. Then every 4-5 hours until fibers stopped showing up in the filter elements. Glass fibers are invisible when wetted with fuel so don't look at your see through filters and think you are safe because you don't visually see anything. Change your filters and inspect for glass fibers. After 700 plus hours I still remove, dry completely and then inspect my filter elements for glass fibers. Haven't found any since early into the test phase but can't help still looking.


    DesertFox4
    Admin.
    7 Super Sport
    912 ULS Tri-gear


  8. #18
    Senior Member Dorsal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help, I think I soiled my carburetor.

    DF4, First my conclusion still includes running AV-Gas but based more on your experience than this event (I do not want to repeat this process). I suspect from your description that these two situations do possibly represent different issues as the sticky stuff was present in my tanks before any fuel was put through them. At any rate we certainly got a bunch of schmutz out of the tanks that should not be there. Thanks for the reminder to replace and check the filter often, will do.
    Last edited by Dorsal; 06-20-2010 at 04:27 AM.
    Dorsal ~~^~~
    Series 7 - Tri-Gear
    912 ULS Warp Drive

  9. #19
    Senior Member cap01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help, I think I soiled my carburetor.

    before i had put any gas in the original tanks , i removed the wings and sloshed both tanks with a epoxy . the epoxy i used is intended for repairing motorcycle gas tanks . like you dorsal , i had to do it with the tank installed also there is a limited working time with the epoxy . cant be too sure of how good the coverage is in the tank due to the baffles . i had approx 100 hrs on the airplane before i replaced one tank with a new mfg 13 gal tank . in fairness , i had used alcohol free gas and very little ethanol with no problems .
    chuck
    kitfox IV 1050
    912ul warpdrive
    flying B , yelm, wa

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Help, I think I soiled my carburetor.

    Dorsal,
    I have "vintage tanks" in my aircraft and am waiting for the brown goo. I have been fortunate to have one gas station that still carries no ethanol but at the end of the year it is "curtains" ! The law mandates it in our state. Am holding off on the alcohol for as long as possible.
    One other indication of a problem with that goo stuff is no compression as you turn the prop to burp your engine. The goo can coat the intake valve valve guides and stick the valves.
    I have installed wing filters to check for flaking of the sloshing compound and I thought break down of the resin but I guess that won't work.
    Am still thinking about the best solution if and when breakdown of the resin does occur. I probably will pull the wings remove the tanks and install the new ones that John offers..don't know yet.
    Dick
    912UL
    Milton,Fl

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