Kitfox IV – What to do about damaged fabric and aileron?

[avidflyer]

I covered and painted a complete Avid except for the tail feathers and 3 different Kitfox wings last year. I kept track of the hours on the wings, but don't have that info with me here. Just guessing though, I would say it would be at least 100 hrs of labor if you are using poly fiber system and have done it before to recover the Kitfox 4. I did some searching, and found a thread I had posted on the "other" Avid/Kitfox site, and there I found that I spent 47 hrs. on installing fabric and finish tapes on 2 Kitfox 4 wings. Based on that, my 100 hr guess is probably way low.....JImChuk

Not sure if the pictures will show up if you're not a member
http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/index.p...-set-of-wings/

[efwd]

I have just about everything you would need to do a complete recover should you seriously consider that task. It was shipped to me 03/01/2016 with my kit. Not sure how much shelf life would be left on the liquids but I am sure i could let it go for a better deal than purchasing from a distributor if its still viable.
Eddie

[rainbird]

Any plane can be repaired. There are some builders who save the data plate and build a new plane around it. That said, from what I see in the pictures it's doable. When I was building my first plane I started knowing nothing about fabric covering. I started by getting a Poly Fiber manual and reading it very carefully. Then I ordered some materials and. Built some jigs. After a couple try's I felt ready to start on my plane . The manual was very well written and explained the whole process step by step. The only thing I had real trouble with was tying that rib lacing knot. I purchased an early DVD and then that made sense. The point is.. you can make those repairs and do a good job if you are willing to take the time and effort. On the other hand...if you want to fly NOW go buy a plane that is ready to fly.

That belly...I would turn the plane upside down, remove the landing gear, then cut out the belly fabric and put on a new piece.
By the way ...what does IMHO stand for?

[PapuaPilot]

Rainbird IMHO = in my honest opinion

I think I spent at least 100 hours just doing the covering and another 100+ doing the painting. Plan on 200-300 hours and $2500-3000 for fabric and paint using the Polyfiber system.

It looks like the fabric should be changed soon, but you might get a flying season out of it if you do some patches. If it has the Stits Polyfiber system you should be able to put wider tape over the loose wing tape using Polytak glue. The same would be true for the door lip. It doesn't have to be pretty if you are going to recover it next winter. Its not clear how bad the belly repair is, just make sure there are not any loose edges, cuts or holes. If there is any missing paint that has peeled or chipped away where there is exposed fabric than you should really just plan to recover it immediately.

When you recover it plan on finding more things that need to be taken care of. You are bound to find things. It is good to add another 50% to your budget for these unexpected things.

The flaperon needs fixing. Whoever does the next condition inspection could easily determine that it is not in a condition safe for flight because:
1. The patch on the trailing edge has added a significant amount of weight that could possibly lead to flutter.
2. There is loss of structural integrity from the wrinkled skin.
3. You need to look inside for de-bonding, bent spar tube, etc.
It might be possible to replace the damaged section of skin and make an over lapping seam outboard of there using pop rivets. This would be a fairly easy repair. If the entire flaperon skin needs replacing it might be better to just build a new one or look for a used one.

IMHO it could be possible to make this a nice plane for an additional $5000. That doesn't include anything on the engine though.

Since the plane is in Florida you need to make sure there is not any corrosion on the airframe, lift struts, wings spars and attach fittings. This or any engine issues would make it a deal breaker for me.

Do you have anyone to help you look at the plane? It would be good to have a KF owner or A&P look at it with you.

Also, if all of the above stuff makes you nervous just walk away or see if they can drop the price accordingly. There will be other Kitfox planes showing up on the market.

[alienwes]

I can't imagine what 100 hours of shop time would cost! I thought the engine was the most costly part to consider. I have been corrected. Thanks for everyone's time and cost estimates.
Wes

[OliverR]

[...] Not sure if the pictures will show up if you're not a member
http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/index.p...-set-of-wings/

Wow, looks like you did a great job.

I have just about everything you would need to do a complete recover should you seriously consider that task. [...]

Good to know, but I guess I'm not there yet.

[...] ...what does IMHO stand for?

"In My Humble Opinion" http://whatis.techtarget.com/definit...humble-opinion

[...] Since the plane is in Florida you need to make sure there is not any corrosion on the airframe, lift struts, wings spars and attach fittings. This or any engine issues would make it a deal breaker for me.

Do you have anyone to help you look at the plane? It would be good to have a KF owner or A&P look at it with you.

Also, if all of the above stuff makes you nervous just walk away or see if they can drop the price accordingly. There will be other Kitfox planes showing up on the market.

No, it doesn't make me nervous, and yes I have somebody to help or to at least give me advise. My wife and I are members of a very active EAA chapter, of which at least one tech counselor has plenty of experience with tube and fabric aircraft. He actually echos the opinion, you guys are expressing: The fabric can be repaired, but that we should prepare ourselves to re-cover it in the not too distant future and that this will most likely also result in a lot of other work. Other members of our chapter also claim to be experienced with tube an fabric.

I have also always been doing most of the maintenance and avionics upgrades on our old weightshift trike, the Cessna 172 we had, our current Mooney and have our mechanic sign off on it. My wife and I are also currently building a RV-10.

I therefore wouldn't consider myself a pro, but I am generally familiar with aircraft system and also have people close by, who I can ask for help. The only area in which I have no experience at all is working with fabric.

Good to know that corrosion is a concern. I wasn't aware of this, as I thought that this would be not much of an issue with Kitfoxes, as they are not that old and since the tubes are made of CrMo.

I can't imagine what 100 hours of shop time would cost! I thought the engine was the most costly part to consider. I have been corrected. Thanks for everyone's time and cost estimates.
Wes

I don't have any experience with Kitfoxes yet, but heard from others, who had vintage aircraft re-covered, that typically fabric and paint makes up for only half the costs. The other half is stuff which needs to be fixed once the old fabric is removed. I understand that the costs to re-cover something like a Piper Cub can easily exceed $30K. Most of it is labor.


My wife generally approves the idea of getting this plane, but she cannot take the next two Fridays off, to fly for a weekend to Florida. It is quite possible that by the time we can go, the plane will already be sold anyway.

Personally, I am still torn between spending $25K to $30K for a nice Kitfox IV, which would however also have +20 year old fabric, paint, most likely a dated panel and an engine with several hundred hours on it.
Or, if we should rather buy something more like a project plane, which we could restore to exactly the condition we want, with big tires, full Lexan doors, a stronger engine and so on.
We might end up at over $30K, but everything would be brand new and we would know the condition of our plane in every detail.

What I really like about the Kitfoxes are the folding wings. While we will get a regular hangar for it, it is still nice to be able to fold the wings, in order to to haul it home and to put it in the heated garage for bigger repairs or modifications.

Tough choice....