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Thread: EFWD Build

  1. #641
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    Eddie, your toe-in/out results match mine and many others with the Grove gear in flight level position-no shims needed. It is not surprising since Grove MACHINES those axel mounting pads to be very accurately located, as opposed to other types of gear where the axels depend on a weld fixture or bent tubes.

    Also you weight is exactly the weight of mine, within one pond.
    Jim Ott
    Portland, OR
    Kitfox SS7 flying
    Rotax 912ULS

  2. #642
    Senior Member jrevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFWD Bu

    Hi Eddie,
    This is my opinion-
    Due to the initial excessive camber on the Grove gear, you will find that you have a considerable amount of toe-in in the 3 point attitude. I had 1 deg. Toe-in is destabilizing on a taildragger. As the airplane is loaded with more weight the camber will decrease to a certain extent. If you shim to correct the camber, the alignment will remain correct whether level or three-point. If you shim to correct the toe-out in the 3-point attitude you will have some toe-out when level, which is not necessarily bad if it isn’t excessive - a little toe-out is actually stabilizing on a taildragger. Since the vast majority of rolling wheel contact with the ground is in the 3-point attitude, the most important and desirable situation is to have neutral (or very slight toe-out) alignment when in that attitude, however you do it. Of course, as the airplane is loaded with more weight, or as the Grove gear “relaxes” with use & age, the excessive camber will diminish and shimming requirements, if any, will diminish. Most people probably don’t perceive any problem with the gear as received, but I found a definite improvement in handling after minimizing or eliminating the toe-in in the 3-point attitude.
    John Evens
    Arvada, CO
    Kitfox SS7 N27JE
    EAA Lifetime
    Chap. 43 honorary Lifetime

  3. #643
    Senior Member jrevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFWD Bu

    Quote Originally Posted by jrevens View Post
    ...If you shim to correct the toe-out in the 3-point attitude you will have some toe-out when level, which is not necessarily bad if it isn’t excessive - a little toe-out is actually stabilizing on a taildragger. ...
    I meant to say “If you shim to correct the TOE-IN...”, not toe-out.
    John Evens
    Arvada, CO
    Kitfox SS7 N27JE
    EAA Lifetime
    Chap. 43 honorary Lifetime

  4. #644

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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    Quote Originally Posted by efwd View Post
    Okay the actual numbers on my wheight are 834#. Weight perfectly divided between the two main gears. Tail wheel was 62# This is a nearly fully loaded S7 SS with 912is engine, whirlwind prop, Garmin suite with 10 and 7 inch screens, auto pilot and Oratex fabric. If you have the Laker leading edge you can expect those few pounds additional. My airplane seemed bigger when in my garage. Wide open space of the hangar has shrunk it a bit. Then comes Randy. My plane became a Shriner looking thing in a parade with him in it. You remember the little cars those guys drove around in parades right? So, thanks for the compliments Randy and making me feel more appreciative about my little a.. once more. I'd still accept some additional height though!
    I've no idea what it looked like with me in it. From the outside, she's getting mighty close, me thinks, to getting inspected so that you can fly it for it's first 40 hours. Gives me some time to mtn bike ride again and lose the bush tire sized Wide "O" oval belly that I'm currently sporting.

    I think you're some hours off before taking passengers in your Experimental.

  5. #645
    Senior Member Flybyjim's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    So how did the addition of the spring change your AP servo setup?

  6. #646
    Senior Member efwd's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    Jim, John thanks for the reply. Im in the middle of changing out my tires. Only one on so far but this morning it will be complete. These airplanes look so much better (IMHO) with a bit bigger tire.
    Yep, it will be a bit more time before Im comfortable flying it alone let alone with passengers. I really want to fly with S&R again before taking it up. I may have to just go local and try out a Citabria.
    Ultimately my AP pitch servo install is intact. The spring did not affect my AP servo install at all. What did have to be modified was the bracket that mounts to the elevator idler bellcrank. To attach the servo to the pitch control system my custom made push pull tube is attached to the same elevator idler bellcrank via an adell clamp that I adhered to the tube. Fortunately the adell is low enough that I could put a notch in the new bracket that, for the most part, allows the adell to lay in the recess that the notch provides. The bracket is supposed to be attached to the bellcrank with hysol and two hose clamps. My clamps will have to due because I would not be able to remove the bolt holding the clevis end of the AP servo link to the bellcrank if I permanently adhere it to the bellcrank. If I could weld I would have just welded on another tab to this new bracket and then hooked my servo to that in addition to the new spring. Then it would all be permanent. In the end, I feel that should the clamps fail somehow, I would just get the added weight of the elevator transferring into the stick. Same thing would happen if the spring were to snap. I bet it would be an interesting sensation if it were to happen on short final.
    Eddie Forward
    Flying
    SS7, 912iS, Garmin G3X

  7. #647
    Senior Member efwd's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    BUMMER! Long ago, I recall someone stating that we should not trim the rudder stop from the aircraft until some later time. Well, at that time I had just done it about 2 weeks prior. I now know why you shouldn't. I noticed today that my rudder swings farther than I originally set it. Off the top of my head I don't recall the angle the rudder is supposed to swing but mine swings and hits the elevator. I did as the manual suggests, leave the small gap between the leading edge rudder close out and the trailing edge of the vertical stab.. I obviously ended up filling that gap plus some once I put the Oratex on all those surfaces. When I put the rudder on I ended up having to turn the rod end bearings out .5 to 1.5 rotations. Well you know where this is going. the additional distance between the stop and the rudder allowed the rudder to swing further. I get to fashion up an adjustable stop! And, I don't much enjoy the thought of trying to get those rudder mount bolts in again. I Got the 22" tires on it today. Funny, they look bigger and nicer in person. I look at the pictures I took and they just look like the right size for the airplane. Started to think about the 26" ones someone is selling. I just can't justify those really. At least until I start doing real Back country stuff.
    Eddie Forward
    Flying
    SS7, 912iS, Garmin G3X

  8. #648
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    So many people miss this, just like you did Eddie, and its a big hassle when you have to come up with another rudder stop after the fact. The build manual really should have a big bold statement not to cut these stops until all fabric, painting and adjustment is done.
    Jim Ott
    Portland, OR
    Kitfox SS7 flying
    Rotax 912ULS

  9. #649
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    Eddie do you have a welder or access to one? Why not just weld a little extra material then grind to proper figment?

  10. #650
    Senior Member efwd's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    thats exactly what I would do if I had access to a welder. Unfortunately I don't. I certainly have the ability to hire someone but a few drilled holes and a metal plate is so much less expensive.
    Eddie Forward
    Flying
    SS7, 912iS, Garmin G3X

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