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Thread: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

  1. #41
    Senior Member Esser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    So roughly double. Well that's probably a good price for the weight saving but I have my polyfibre stuff. Maybe John should look into it as an option for future kits. Carbon fibre and oratex, you might squeak one under 700lbs if you were stingy on weight everywhere else

  2. #42
    Senior Member HighWing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    I am curious beyond curious. I am aware that any covering system is a significant part of the empty weight of any airplane. I recall during the Arab Oil Embargo, US airlines removing paint from the airplanes as a fuel saving mearure. And I am aware that LIght has significant benefit beyone GPH.

    But, Does anyone have any idea roughly or exactly, how much weight saving is to be had using the Oratex system?
    Lowell Fitt
    Goodyear, AZ


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  3. #43
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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Cub View Post
    In closing we figured we saved someplace between 20 and 25 pounds on our Experimental Cub build.. if you can find something to replace with Carbon or Titanium it generally costs between $500 and $1000 per loss of pounds. Its like getting a $10K-$20K check when doing the fabric!! We all want performance and know weight to HP is where it's at.

    If you want more 'biased' independent report give a call.
    Thankz for listening,

    frank (Lil'Cub)
    907-841-0298
    This is what Frank said abotu his lil' cub which is probably a similar size

  4. #44
    Senior Member jrevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by HighWing View Post
    I am curious beyond curious. I am aware that any covering system is a significant part of the empty weight of any airplane...
    Just roughly, but I have heard from several users that a cub size airplane can save around 25 to 30 lbs. There are other factors besides weight that also appeal to me. The strength/toughness is one. It's amazing to see the demonstration where a ball-peen hammer is used to beat on a panel (hard). A small amount of stretching/dimpling is the result, and application of heat with a heat gun takes it right out. Doing the job in the comfort of my shop/basement with no toxic fume issues is also nice.
    John Evens
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    Kitfox SS7 N27JE
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  5. #45

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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    The new edition of Kitplanes has what looks to be a pretty informative article on covering with Oratex.

  6. #46

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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    Weight saving? I recently removed all fabric from a skyfox( an Australian production based on the kitfox 3) in preparation for recover, the weight of which was less than 10kg(22lbs) for the entire aircraft. Unsure weather it was 1.7 oz or 2.7 oz but really saving 20 to 30 lbs? I doubt it. Tom

  7. #47
    Senior Member LSaupe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    Any more feedback on this covering system? Interested to hear from anyone who has experience with the product.

    Larry S.

  8. #48
    Senior Member HighWing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    I saw this covering on an airplane this past weekend. Most of the airplane was Polyfiber. The cover material was white with no design and unless looked at closely it looked just the same as the bulk of the covering. The sun was bright and it was difficult looking at it in the direct sunlight. It was slightly translucent as you could see internal structure as shadows in the overall material. I also noticed what looked like pencil lines around most of the inspection rings, but on closer examination, it appeared to be dust collecting on the edge of the pinked fabric rings. I also noticed that some of the finishing tapes had edges that could be lifted up with a fingernail - not fully glued down. It is a different material and apparently a whole different set of procedures need to be used to make sure all is as it should be.

    Example: with the wet glue on the finish tapes, you can see the adhesive through the finish tape as it fills the weave. This gives some hint as to how the tapes are bonded. Then you can attack with the finishing iron those pinked triangles that appear whiter than the others. With the Oratex, every inch has to be heated and inspected to ensure bonding - less saturated with adhesive. You are not using the iron to smooth the edge, but rather applying heat that activates the adhesive. Then since there is no finish coating to radius the edges of the various layers, I suspect the dust lines might remain problematic on the lighter colors though just guessing there.

    Please consider that these observation are from a person who has seen one example only and I am not experienced or fully aware of the procedures used in the covering process.
    Lowell Fitt
    Goodyear, AZ


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  9. #49
    Senior Member jrevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    I've just barely started using the Oratex. I think it's looking good so far, to me. Lowell's right... it is different and does require different techniques than PolyFiber. I'm almost done with the rudder, which I decided to do first as it involves most of the various "tricks" that will be needed. I have heard that some folks who have had problems are those who have a lot of PolyFiber/ceconite experience. You have to follow the directions closely, just like most things.

    If edges are able to be lifted with a fingernail then someone probably didn't take enough care in the process. It is not hard to ensure that finish tapes are properly heated, & and if so done, the fabric will tear before the glue bond fails. It seems that most people are using the pinked finishing tapes, and I am using straight edge - they come either way, same price. I believe those using pinked edges are doing it mostly for the traditional look. Honestly, you can't tell the difference from 10 feet away, & I've decided that I like the look close up also. The reason I chose straight is because there is less exposed edge, & I think that is better from an engineering standpoint with this system. There is no need to pink, as the fabric doesn't unravel or fray like unfinished ceconite. Since there is no overcoat of paint, all those little pinked points can be potentially problematic in my opinion. So far I like it... we'll see as time goes on. I'll try to post a few pictures sometime soon.

    BTW, the Australian Skyfox was almost surely the lightweight fabric. I've weighed all the over-sized panels that I cut out for the entire airplane, & the weight was less than 14 lbs.(much of that will be cut away). There is a little more fabric on a Series 7 of course also. This is the 6000 material, which is stronger than 2.7 ounce PolyFiber cloth. Add finish tape & glue, & I estimate another +/- 5 lbs. Depending on how much paint you put on a conventional job, I don't think that 20-25# weight savings is too far off.

    I'm not trying to sell this stuff to anyone. I'll just try to relay my experiences as I go along.
    John Evens
    Arvada, CO
    Kitfox SS7 N27JE
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  10. #50
    Senior Member jrevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    One other minor point related to HighWing's previous post - when using heat to activate the adhesive, you actually do "smooth" the edges. The more you iron & apply pressure, the smoother it gets. Any little "blobs" underneath are softened & smoothed. Same thing with minor wrinkles, etc. after being heated to activate it, the glue cross-links & develops greater strength over a period of days, & then requires a much higher temperature to melt. It is a stronger bond than the PolyFiber glue - see the latest Kitplanes article.
    Also, some of the dust lines seen by Lowell may have been due to adhesive applied to the fabric too close to the edge of the tape. The glue is clear, but looks a little different/darker when heated. The tapes come with glue pre-applied, & you apply a thin layer to the underlying fabric, keeping it a short distance from the edges. The glue is not at all visible at the edges if done properly. The glue on the tapes alone is adequate according to what I've been told, but applying it to the fabric adds additional "insurance".
    John Evens
    Arvada, CO
    Kitfox SS7 N27JE
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