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Thread: Full Flap Use

  1. #21
    Senior Member Slyfox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full Flap Use

    with the way these airplanes fly. you should not need to slip with a passenger. really. you can control yourself and the airplane to do a standard airport approach. control your speeds, control your decent, and have plenty of runway left to stop. the only time I need to slip is for MY fun. so you have it. just land a normal landing, take off with a normal take off and you can leave the flaps stationary in the normal flight mode. OFF.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Slyfox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full Flap Use

    there is one more thing that keeps me from NOT wanting to use flaps. it's the fact that when you put in the flaps the stick pressure to actually pull the elevator back for the flare will be real hard. the ability to decent without stick pressure for nose heavy is more. I have electric trim on my elevator, and with full trim for nose high, I still have a nose over situation if I put in the flap. I like the fact that when I land without flaps and full up on the trim, I have a nice loose stick, I can almost let go of it without any drop. I can relax on landing and when things are right, that nice no more flying feeling, I pull the stick back all the way and let it drop on the runway, nice and soft I may add.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Full Flap Use

    My plane has a very flat glide, even when slowed down a lot. The flaperons
    do not provide hardly any drag, so I find slips to be almost a necessity to fly
    a nice glide path. I use from a minor slip to a full rudder slip. Of course if
    flying from an 8000 foot runway on a ILS'ish approach with a nice headwind
    maybe not .... But that's not usually the case.

    I've never had a passenger get scared from a slip, but I always tell them
    what I'm doing first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox View Post
    with the way these airplanes fly. you should not need to slip with a passenger. really. you can control yourself and the airplane to do a standard airport approach. control your speeds, control your decent, and have plenty of runway left to stop. the only time I need to slip is for MY fun. so you have it. just land a normal landing, take off with a normal take off and you can leave the flaps stationary in the normal flight mode. OFF.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Slyfox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full Flap Use

    here is another one for me when it concerns a passenger. I give them a choice. that choice. do you want to go in the kitfox or the rv. I always get a response back of, the rv, yayaya please.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Slyfox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full Flap Use

    ok that wasn't fair. I've had people respond back with: I will take a ride in both. I will have to say, I have yet slipped with a passenger in my kitfox, no need. It will slow down just fine for a normal landing. sorry the slip is my fun only. landing with flaps at least in a model 4 is NOT needed. and with 1800 hrs I can say they can be tied to the frame and never used.

  6. #26

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    Default Re: Full Flap Use

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox View Post
    ok that wasn't fair. I've had people respond back with: I will take a ride in both. I will have to say, I have yet slipped with a passenger in my kitfox, no need. It will slow down just fine for a normal landing. sorry the slip is my fun only. landing with flaps at least in a model 4 is NOT needed. and with 1800 hrs I can say they can be tied to the frame and never used.
    We should all realize that some have limited the travel on their flaps, so full flaps on one KF 4 might be 33 degrees and the next one full flaps is only 15 degrees or so.

    I have posted in the past about flaps and their benefits on the model 4 for what I have found in over 2,000 hour on Kitfox IV model alone. I have only flown Kitfox models 1,2 and 4 but many other types homebuilt and cert up to DC3.

    Mine = 33 deg down full
    take off - will help with half flaps
    will help even more by giving full deflection to break sticky surface
    -eg deep snow
    -wet snow
    -Mud
    -glass water - on floats.
    -even all water take offs in hotter weather.
    There is no arguement here.

    Landing
    up to half flap for me was plenty and never found any benifit to deploy and more. They did help. I also ran Vgs and they helped a bit as well.
    ( there are some negatives on Vgs but that another topic. )

    On model 1 and 2 you are limited to about 10 to 15 degree max deflection and I really never found much benefit on these models for take off or landing. Slight gain but not huge.

    Want to learn to land shorter ?
    - learn your plane better.
    Hone your slow flight skills at altitude - fly without an airpseed indicator to really learn your plane.

    You have all seen my movies on youtube-- they speak for the great attributes of the Kitfox and how much fun you can have.

    It is up to you to get maximun performance from both your plane and your self.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Slyfox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full Flap Use

    Want to learn to land shorter ?
    - learn your plane better.
    Hone your slow flight skills at altitude - fly without an airpseed indicator to really learn your plane.

    Thanks Dave,
    I really love this statement. I agree 100% on this. In fact the best way to know your fox is to go up to altitude and play with it.

    when I land I never look at the airspeed. I'm looking out the left window. yup, that view out the front sucks. I also have clear glass on the lower portion of my door. that way I can also watch the wheel touch the ground.

    the fox is a very fun machine to fly. happy flying

  8. #28
    Senior Member Esser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full Flap Use

    Perhaps it's the glider pilot in me but I always coming in high and slip down not necessarily aggressive but I do slip. When I got my private license the most annoying thing for me was the fact that a C172 does not slip at all compared to a glider.

    The way I look at it, Altitude is my friend. You can always trade it for something. I don't like dragging in on the prop. I always think of what were to happen if the engine quit. Just my thing I guess.


    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox View Post
    with the way these airplanes fly. you should not need to slip with a passenger. really. you can control yourself and the airplane to do a standard airport approach. control your speeds, control your decent, and have plenty of runway left to stop. the only time I need to slip is for MY fun. so you have it. just land a normal landing, take off with a normal take off and you can leave the flaps stationary in the normal flight mode. OFF.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Slyfox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full Flap Use

    you still don't need to slip with a very short approach. I do that all the time, I to hate long drawn out patterns, you know the Cessna airline approaches. I can do a short approach, power off, no slip and land. I call that my normal approach.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Full Flap Use

    I absolutely guarantee you will not do this with N85AE. If you fly a tight
    pattern say 800-1000 AGL, chop power, and don't use any slip you will
    watch the entire runway disappear under the plane. It floats forever. I
    suppose you could hold the nose up until the sink rate gets high enough
    at around 40-45 mph however this is not something I like to do, since it's
    easy to encounter a 10-15 mph wind shift which will yank the rug right out
    from under you since then you're getting into stall land around 35.
    (45-10=stall)

    Slips are the way to go, with my airplane to get down from a tight pattern.

    I think the point is that the planes are not all the same, and a light model 4,
    is an entirely different airplane than a heavy series 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox View Post
    you still don't need to slip with a very short approach. I do that all the time, I to hate long drawn out patterns, you know the Cessna airline approaches. I can do a short approach, power off, no slip and land. I call that my normal approach.

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