Kitfox Aircraft Stick and Rudder Stein Air Grove Aircraft TCW Technologies Dynon Avionics AeroLED MGL Avionics Leading Edge Airfoils Desser EarthX Batteries Garmin G3X Touch
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: FAA letter of deviation: Anybody have one?

  1. #1

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    13

    Question FAA letter of deviation: Anybody have one?

    Hey all,

    I called Kitfox yesterday and spoke to a wonderfully helpful woman who informed me quite a bit on questions I had regarding S-lsa, e-lsa and giving flight training.

    Basically, I want to build my Kitfox and keep the possibility open of doing flight training in it when I attain my cfii. Now you can flight train in an s-lsa but those have to be 100% factory built. So unless you want to pony up the dough for them to build, you won't have one. An e-lsa you could have and get the 16 hour cert so you could do your own annuals but then you can't give flight instruction. An amateur built experimental is in the same boat. Such was my conundrum...

    However, she informed me that it is possible to attain a letter of deviation from our good friends at the FAA which would allow you to do follow on training (such as getting a tailwheel endorsement) in an experimental amateur built and I assume an e-lsa as well. But she stressed they dont just give them out because you asked.

    So that being said, does anybody here have one or know somebody who has gotten one?
    Flying a 1965 Cessna 172 for now - it is a 6 cylinder Conti so at least she runs smooth and has the heat to cook you out of the cab even on the coldest winter day!

  2. #2
    tommg13780's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Guilford, NY
    Posts
    156

    Default Re: FAA letter of deviation: Anybody have one?

    I don't have the LODA but it was considered. You are allowed to give instruction in E-LSA or AM-EXP but cannot (legally) take compensation. This program was a 1/2 hearted effort by FAA to get more Light Sport aircraft available for people seeking training. After about 2 years I believe the nationwide headcount for LODA qualified trainers was at 29. I'm attaching the current list from EAA and a quick count shows 88 participants spread over 28 states. The only Kitfoxes are at Stick and Rudder in Idaho.

    https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-...s-loda-holders

    This is not a fill in the blanks type application and if approved it's good for 2 years. I actually obtained a copy of an approved application that went through the Albany, NY FSDO and decided it wasn't worth the hassles. I believe we have a FSDO staff at Albany that is inclined to make things as difficult as possible.

    If you are successful that would be the first in Vermont. Good Luck.

  3. #3
    alienwes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Roswell, NM
    Posts
    29

    Default Re: FAA letter of deviation: Anybody have one?

    I know Phil Dietro gives instruction under a LODA in southern CA. He has an ELSA powered parachute. He gets compensated for it. I remember there being a cutoff to apply for one when sport pilot took over. Had to be before 2007 if I remember right.

    Wes

  4. #4
    Senior Member rv9ralph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Greenleaf, ID
    Posts
    618

    Default Re: FAA letter of deviation: Anybody have one?

    LODAs are usually issued to conduct transition training for a specific model of aircraft, e.g. RV, Lancair, etc. It will usually require a training syllabus for that transition training. There are several individuals with LODAs in the RV community spread around the country.
    You might find information specific to those at the Vansairforce.com forums.

    A CFI can instruct in an E-AB aircraft, no compensation can be charged for the use of an E-AB aircraft.

    Ralph

  5. #5
    Senior Member efwd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Yorba Linda, CA
    Posts
    2,817

    Default Re: FAA letter of deviation: Anybody have one?

    I thought that I read in the FARs that you can charge to instruct in an E-AB. AFTER I paid both for the aircraft rental as well as for the instruction I thought it was strange that I was charged "openly" for it. I didn't object. I would have paid even it weren't allowed. I believe I read that transition training for type was allowed. The premise being safety improvements for those of us preparing to fly our newly built aircraft. I may be wrong but no skin off my back. I'd do it again if I am.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: FAA letter of deviation: Anybody have one?

    Thanks everyone for the insight. Just to be clear I would be looking to charge for this flight instruction.

    When she spoke on the phone she did elude to the fact that it was kind of FSDO discretion. You can't really blame those guys for being heaitanf thought. If they approve a LODA for some guy to instruct in his E-AB and then they end up crashing during training and somebody is hurt or killed, the NTSB is going to ask that FAA official why the approved the LODA and they better have something to fall back on.

    My thoughts are this: make my plane an E-LSA because those have more documentation behind them than an E-AB. You have annuals and I will get the 16 hour cert so at least I have some small degree of documented training. That way they can take comfort in the fact that if something happens they are covered to a degree. I always try to myself in their shoes.
    Flying a 1965 Cessna 172 for now - it is a 6 cylinder Conti so at least she runs smooth and has the heat to cook you out of the cab even on the coldest winter day!

  7. #7
    Senior Member aviator79's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Los Alamos, NM
    Posts
    913

    Default Re: FAA letter of deviation: Anybody have one?

    Quote Originally Posted by efwd View Post
    I thought that I read in the FARs that you can charge to instruct in an E-AB. AFTER I paid both for the aircraft rental as well as for the instruction I thought it was strange that I was charged "openly" for it. I didn't object. I would have paid even it weren't allowed. I believe I read that transition training for type was allowed. The premise being safety improvements for those of us preparing to fly our newly built aircraft. I may be wrong but no skin off my back. I'd do it again if I am.
    Not relevant to the OP, but you're right. Per FAA Order 8900.1, a flight instructor may be compensated for providing instruction in an E-AB, but may not be compensated for use of an E-AB. From a practical perspective, this means you can pay a CFI to teach you in a plane that isn't theirs. I wouldn't try to walk the line of claiming that the student was paying only for instruction and not use of the aircraft. I don't think that would hold water at the hearing.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: FAA letter of deviation: Anybody have one?

    Quote Originally Posted by aviator79 View Post
    Not relevant to the OP, but you're right. Per FAA Order 8900.1, a flight instructor may be compensated for providing instruction in an E-AB, but may not be compensated for use of an E-AB. From a practical perspective, this means you can pay a CFI to teach you in a plane that isn't theirs. I wouldn't try to walk the line of claiming that the student was paying only for instruction and not use of the aircraft. I don't think that would hold water at the hearing.
    I was thinking the EXACT same thing... Good luck to anyone who wants to try and play that game.
    Flying a 1965 Cessna 172 for now - it is a 6 cylinder Conti so at least she runs smooth and has the heat to cook you out of the cab even on the coldest winter day!

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Brownsburg, IN
    Posts
    544

    Default Re: FAA letter of deviation: Anybody have one?

    As the owner of a model IV I'm going to need training from a CFI. So I can pay him/her as long as I'm the owner. Is this correct?

  10. #10
    Senior Member t j's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ellensburg, WA
    Posts
    861

    Default Re: FAA letter of deviation: Anybody have one?

    I receintly got a flight review from a CFI for hire in my kitfox. He charged for me for flight instruction.
    Tom Jones
    Classic 4 builder

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •