Grove landing gear

[sdemeyer]

I'm thinking of switching my standard gear to Grove gear, before I get arrested for DUI
.
I hear that the Grove gear makes a much improved difference in ground handling. Looking for feedback from someone who has actually done this before I fork out the $$. Does it really make that much of a difference?

[DesertFox4]

Yes!!!



I was just going to reply with the above one word answer but you deserve more. I had a model 3 years ago that the factory tube gear made "exciting" to land and take off with. Now you really don't spend lots of time taking off in a model 3 with a 912 on it but the little time it took to raise the tail and pull the stick it was anybody's guess which way it would point. Very seldom did it settle on straight down the runway. Landings induce a pucker factor high on the scale. Inject a cross wind and all bets were off. All due to the gear being cambered out and toed in. Any weight shift at all induced directional instability. Now some would say that makes you a better pilot to be so aware on landings but I'd just as soon skip the blood pressure spikes at my age.
Bottom line is my Kitfox's will have Grove gear either in tail or nose configuration. Very robust , wider stance , better handling, gun drilled brake lines, great company support and worth every penny charged. I enjoyed landings after the Grove gear installation. Best of luck Scott.

[sdemeyer]

No, not too heavy. 652 empty. Yes, I checked the toe. It's toed in about 1.5 degrees. I would think that should be adequate. I don't seem to have an issue going straight in the J-5 Cub nor a Citabria so I'm blaming my meandering around the runway, on the KF landing gear

[DesertFox4]

Scott with the 912 you'll notice very little if any difference in performance with the Grove gear. I didn't on my model 3 except the ground handling was vastly improved. Added weight is always a concern on any Kitfox but the added safety to every flight exceeds any penalty you pay for the net gain.
The Grove gear for the model 3 & 4 Kitfox weighs 24.3 lbs. Of course you'll subtract the weight of the original gear from the Grove gear to get your net increase.

Another gear you might check out, if you haven't already, is the new gear Kitfox Aircraft has for sale.
More of a bush type gear. Not sure what they weigh but they are on the Kitfox Aircraft website in the parts catalog on page 35 part number 13050.000 for $1450.00.

[sdemeyer]

Thanks for the info Steve. I'm headed to Arlington this afternoon so I will talk to the Mcbeans and see what they have available. I compared the LG on my KF with another and it appears mine is not the same. My gear has much beefier tubes is a little taller and the axels have a different setup. Looks like the original builder may have made custom gear.

Scott

[HighWing]

I wouldl like to offer a little correction to the Grove gear weight and a suggestion regarding toe in. First, the weight of the Grove gear listed on their website is the gear leg only. I talked to a rep and asked for total weight including brackets and fasteners. After a delay, which I presume was to put everything on a scale, I was told the weight was just short of 31 lbs. I seriously doubt you will find any aircraft accessory or part that is advertized with the actual installed weight anywhere in the literature.

Regarding the toe in at 1.5 degrees and being just about adequate. Toe in is seriously destabilizing - any toe in. Parallel or slightly toed out is much better. This can be achieved at little or no cost. I still have my copy of the factory newsletter describing the method for correction - bending the gear. I also flew with both sets of gear with little difference. I changed because of gear failures rather than handling. I did tweek the gear before first flight though. I ended up with a 700 lb. Model IV. My buddy flew with a IV weighing 600 lbs. Side by side, we were close, but I never won the cigar. I guess it depends somewhat on where you want to go.

A serious suggestion, before forking out the big bucks, try tweeking the gear. You may find that that vacation to (insert fantasy destination) suddenly has become more possible now.

Lowell

[Slyfox]

I went from tube to grove gear and absolutely love it. I've landed on some rough stuff and it holds up real well. My model 4 weighs in at 645 w the grove gear. I wouldn't think twice on doing it again. No more bungies, yeepeee! What a pain in a butt on those things. You won't have any problems with Grove gear with the 912 in a model 4.

[Av8r3400]

Aside from weight;

1. Grove gear are shorter than the "tube" gear making your AOA on the gear less and more potential for porpoising on landing (Taildraggers)
2. The grove style gear put more twisting stress on the lower stringers which could lead to cracking if you are rough field landing often. The tube gear spread this twist leverage over a larger area.
3. The axles, brakes (master cylinders, too?), wheels and probably tires will need to be changed in a grove conversion, too. $$$$

All that said I like the grove gear on my so-equipped plane, but I also like the tube gear, too. The width and lack of bungee maintenance is nice, but I do wish they were taller.

I'd agree that you should check your toe-in situation first. Cost is almost $0 for that. Just don't throw the baby out with the bathwater for a simple toe adjustment.

[catz631]

I have Lowells "bush gear" and absolutely LOVE IT ! It was a dramatic difference from the old narrow bungee gear. I have about 50 hrs on it now with lots of landings. I weighed the stock gear when I took it off and then weighed the new bush gear. They were in 1/2 lb of each other which is much lighter than the Grove. The gear bolts right on to the original mountaing and was done in a weekend (I am slow)

[napierm]

One point no one has brought up.

I've had 2 serious gear failures in my KF3, both due to stupidity by yours truly.

Both times, the lower longeron failed at the rear attachment and the rear portion of the gear leg came up into the seat. Look over the geometry and you'll see what I mean.

To me the bush gear just has more leverage to do the same.

I decided on the Grove gear after the 2nd time where if there had been a passenger in the right seat they would have been badly hurt.

If I drive into a ditch a 3rd time (God Forbid) there wont be a steel tube wanting to drive up my back pipe. The forward mounts should fail and the gear fold back.

YMMV,

Mark Napier