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Thread: I'm new & need High Alt per. WHat config ?

  1. #1

    Default I'm new & need High Alt per. WHat config ?

    Hello all!
    I'm new to Kitfoxes. I usually fly Cessna 150-152's.
    I will be relocating to a new home where the elevation is 8000' .
    I have plenty of land and would like a fun craft for summer and winter flying.
    I only need 2 seats but as you can surmise....the summer temps can hit 90.
    Lets say I want to operate in a condition that the field D/A is 10,000'.
    Is there a Kitfox model and powerplant configuration that can cut it?

    I basically think the widest wingspan is the best advantage. I would like to get an honest 100kts in cruise.

    Oh...I desire short field performance as well.

    Is this too much to ask in the Kitfox?

    Thanks everybody. Let's busta cloud!

    Marty

  2. #2
    Senior Member War Eagle's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm new & need High Alt per. WHat config ?

    The model 5, 6, 7 and SS are all rated at 1550lbs gross and when fitted with a Rotax 914 you could handle the 10K density altitude and have margin to spare.

    The 914 will give you lots of performance in take off and cruise, but the powerplant isn't cheap (north side of $30k if you buy a new one). It is also a tad complex when compared to the Rotax 912.

    But if you play with rotary wing stuff you already know about complex.

  3. #3
    Senior Member HighWing's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm new & need High Alt per. WHat config ?

    Smiley Creek is 7100 feet and a group of us have been there numerous times. I don't recall afternoon, in the heat of the day and the normal mountain winds, takeoffs, though. We usually did our mouintain flying in the mornings - more for the smooth air than the density altitude. We were a mix of 80 and 100 hp Rotaxes. One thing to remember about the Kitfox. In any configuration you will get incredible performance compared to any Cessna. For those who have been at Johnson Creek. I have personally seen a Model IV Kitfox make a straight out departure clearing the notch in the ridge withour having to make the left down the canyon turn. Certified aircraft taking off from there will not be at 30% of the altitude needed for the strait out at the same point.

    I have always wondered about high performance Kitfoxes with the exact same wing and aircraft ranging in empty weights from the very low 600 lbs. to 900 lbs. or more. If your mission would allow it, I would suggest the Model IV. Easy to get it around 600 lbs, but the fairings you would need to get it to your target cruise speed would take it up to maybe 650 lbs. But then it would still be a much better off the ground performer than the bigger 900 pounder.

    Lowell

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Av8r3400's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm new & need High Alt per. WHat config ?

    Excellent advise. I would expect in that mission empty weight is a critical factor for peak high DA performance.
    Av8r3400
    Kitfox Model IV
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  5. #5
    Newkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm new & need High Alt per. WHat config ?

    I don't think Kitfoxes know the meaning of density altitude. You get up real high and all of a sudden your taking 500 ft to take off instead of 200. Just build it light.
    Ty
    Kitfox IV-1200
    912

  6. #6

    Default Re: I'm new & need High Alt per. WHat config ?

    I really like the idea of a SS with either the radial or the new Lycombing IO-233

    ...and for the money of a 914....TBO is something to consider. I really don't know too much about Rotax but I love a radial and I am very used to O-200's and O-235's.


    I understand the idea of light empty wt. but a little heavier bird is sometimes more comfortable if the power is there, no?

    Is anyone flying a fuel injected Kitfox?

    I'd like to find a website that showed all the configurations of Kitfoxes flying and maybe owner contact info...
    As you can tell....I am...a dreamer.
    Dreams are the foundation of progress.

  7. #7
    BigJohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm new & need High Alt per. WHat config ?

    Marty,

    I havn't flown a 150 or 152 in a lot of years, However Flown a lot of 172's, 182's, cubs and have about 300hrs in a Kitfox S-5. The S-5 with a 912uls outperforms all of these on short field landing or take off from Sea level to Just over 10,000', That is the highest I have taken off in Density Altitude. fully loaded at Sea Level the S-5 can be off the ground in under 200' at 4000' Density it is right at 300' and at 10,000' it is no more than 600'. You won't be disappointed in a Fox, My shortest shortfield landing at 4000' one person not fully loaded is 150' my best in a SuperCub was 170'. Other's may be able to do better but in comparing my skill set the Kitfox still out performs any thing else I have flown. Oh yes My Cruse at 75% is just over 100kts TAS at 5.2 gal hr.
    BigJohn
    Kitfox 5 Outback
    Rotax 912ULS With 1622cc Big Torque Zipper Conversion

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  8. #8
    Newkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm new & need High Alt per. WHat config ?

    Nothing will outperform a Rotax 912 in a Kitfox, except for the 914 . If you really want high altitude performance go for the Rotax. All those other engines are good engines but they make the plane considerably heavier. Some, like an IO-240, may have enough power to pull the plane off the ground fairly short but your stall speed will always be higher because of the added weight. What are you expecting out the plane as far as short field performance goes???
    Ty
    Kitfox IV-1200
    912

  9. #9

    Default Re: I'm new & need High Alt per. WHat config ?

    Well...assuming I can survive summer thermals. ( I can't promise to ONLY fly in the mornings)
    Here is where I want to land in the summers. This red shaded area is 600' long.


    Now what you don't see is a cabin I built about another 500 ' to the right.
    This photo is from that cabin looking toward that red shaded area in the winter.


    The site elevation is 8000'. It's a clear flightpath but the ground in the summer is not as smooth as it looks.

    The Cessna 150 I fly now can give 40degrees of flaps and solo I can land so slow that I can brake and make a u-turn on the runway in under 200 feet. But I'm at sea level ( in fact I can see the ocean on short final).
    If I could turbo-normalize that 150, I'd just keep it! An HONEST100 horses on a 1000lb aircraft would be sweet!

    Speaking of that...is anyone flying a turbo or fuel injected powerplant in a Kitfox?

    Hey Thank you fellow aviators for giving me some perspectives.

    Marty

  10. #10
    Senior Member War Eagle's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm new & need High Alt per. WHat config ?

    I fly a Series 7 with the 914.

    The Rotax 914 is a 4 cylinder turbo charged engine. It has a weight of somwhere around 140 lbs. It is rated at 115 hp at take off (maximum 5 minutes at full boost). It will generate a full 100 hp up to a pretty high altitude where as a normally aspirated engine will experience about a 2-3% loss of power for every 1000 foot gain in altitude above sea level.

    It is not fuel injected.

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