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Thread: In flight fires

  1. #1
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    Default In flight fires

    In the area that I live, an experimental Ravin 500 went down the other day due to what is believed an in flight fire. There was a recent post on this forum about a Kitfox speedster that went down from what is believed to be an in flight fire. Just curious to know what others are doing to prevent and or combat this if it happens. It seems like the majority of the time if there is an in flight fire, the result is a fatality. I am going to carry a halon fire extingusher but are there other safeguards? Opinions, suggestions? Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: In flight fires

    FYI ....

    For those of you who have not yet had a fuel leak inside the aircraft of a aircraft, don't put anything on the floor that can absorb and hold fuel (including insulation). Beter yet, install a small screen on the bottom fabric to let fuel out, if nessisary. The kitfox has a great deal of fuel passing though the cabin, beter safe then .... well you know.

    Roger

  3. #3

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    Default Re: In flight fires

    Always good to reread/review the standard procedures for dealing with an in-flight fire. Here is an AOPA flight training article that is worth reading - not sure if you have to be a member to access this:

    http://flighttraining.aopa.org/students/flighttestprep/skills/fire.html
    RobS

  4. #4
    Senior Member Dave S's Avatar
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    Default Re: In flight fires

    In flight fires - Whew!

    That is a subject any of us hopes never to have to deal with. This may seem a little simplistic; but, it probably boils down to two things.

    1) Prevention
    2) What to do if you get one.

    I think the second thing is best dealt with via our emergency procedure training and such resources as the AOPA reference which has been mentioned. An adjunct to this is any of us building; when we put our pilot's operating manual together for the airplane we are building, need to be very thoughtful concerning the nature of the systems we have built and give careful consideration to emergency procedures specific to our build. Nobody knows better than the builder. Simple straightforward emergency procedures in the cockpit are pretty important since the second failure following a system failure can often involve one's brain and it is good to have something written down to compensate for that.

    Prevention is painted with a pretty broad brush stroke; however, it boils down to:
    a) Building to minimize fire risk
    b) Maintaining to minimize fire risk
    c) Operating to minimize fire risk

    I'll throw out a challenge. Information sharing can hopefully be of use to the entire community.

    In your Kitfox experience, what have you done to:

    a) Build to minimize fire risk
    b) Maintain to minimize fire risk
    c) Operate to minimize fire risk

    If each person comes up with one good idea, it might help us all.

    Sincerely,

    Dave S.
    KF 7 Trigear

  5. #5
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    Default Re: In flight fires

    I know that it should go without saying but an ounce of prevention is worth a lb of cure or in this case an inflight fire. I was checking my fuel lines a couple of months ago and saw what seemed to be a small sign of ageing on one, After further inspection and pulling off lines I found that they were showing severe signs internally of age, I took the ounce of prevention and replaced all fuel lines from the tanks all the way to the carbs, and put in a new vent line.

    In addition I put shut off's (I know the controversy) one on each side to shut off any specific fuel tank if needed, again an option to prevent further fuel into the cockpit area if needed and It has not hindered any flow.

    I also a few months prior noticed on the fuel sight gauges that they were beginning to show signs of age and replaced them with the new style that Kitfox has, I should have at that time checked the entire system I would have found then I should have replaced all the lines. I also carry an extinguisher but it would only be good for the most minor fire.
    BigJohn
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  6. #6

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    Default Re: In flight fires

    That Ravin was running a recently installed Corvette conversion, complete with high-pressure automotive fuel injection.

    Maybe it's just coincidence, but it seems like every time I hear about a crash caused by an in-flight fire, it's an auto conversion and fuel injection. That was true of the one Kitfox fire and crash that I'm aware of, which had a way-too-big Subaru installed up front. And there was also an RV6 with a Chevy V6 conversion in Oklahoma that I remember from about 8 years ago. And Bud's previous crash four years ago was another Corvette conversion.

    I don't mean to diminish the issue. Frankly, the Kitfox fuel system has always worried me, and I'm plumbed most of my cockpit in aluminum for that very reason. But since most of us are running a carb with gravity feed, at least if something breaks we won't be pumping fuel on a hot engine at 35 PSI!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Dave S's Avatar
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    Default Re: In flight fires

    Hi Jon,

    When you say you have plumbed most of the cockpit with aluminum tubing - how much do you mean? What did you do with the wing root area so the wings can fold? I stuck with the rubber hoses from the wingtanks to header - then aluminum tubing from the header to the fuel valve; and, rubber again from the fuel valve to the firewall - that is per the plans spec. Curious how much of the rubber you were able to replace with aluminum tubing. Sounds like a really good idea.

    I have an electric boost pump at the low spot in the system; but, it stays switched off during normal operation.

    Sincerely,

    Dave S
    KF7 Trigear
    912ULS Warp

  8. #8
    Administrator DesertFox4's Avatar
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    Default Re: In flight fires

    Every year I replace all flexible vinyl fuel lines in the cockpit along with both site gauge tubes. I have aluminum fuel lines from my header tank up to my aux. electric fuel pump then to the fuel valve next to my fuel flow transducer then to the firewall bulkhead fitting. Nothing moves in those areas so aluminum is fine.
    My model 4 has been in service now since Oct. 2003. At five years I replaced all oil and fuel lines under the cowlings. All looked just fine. Mine are stainless steel wrapped for abrasion and heat resistance so you can't see the actual hose under the SS wrap so for that reason they got replaced. Won't be long until another 5 years will be up and all will get replaced again if not sooner.
    Fire sleeves are a good idea on all under cowling fuel lines.
    I too have fuel shut off valves above both see through fuel filters coming from each wing tank.
    I do need to get a new extinguisher on board.

    One thing I did on my model 4 is go with a Stainless Steel one piece firewall and it extends farther underneath the Kitfox towards the tail than stock firewalls. Gives a little more fire protection from flames coming under the aircraft in the leg and seat area. Also a little more puncture resistant if landing/crashing in trees or bushes or the like.

    Keep your exhaust system in good repair. Bad fitting exhaust or retaining springs that are almost wore through on the tabs need to be replaced. Check mufflers frequently for damage. Rotax's used to be notorious for breaking "stingers". Not fun to be dumping hot exhaust gasses in the engine compartment or setting your cowlings on fire.

    Another thought is what type of clothing you wear while flying. Cotton is probably best. Anything polyester is not a great choice. It will melt to the skin in a flash fire. Nasty injuries from melting clothing. Shorts , not such a good idea either for obvious reasons. I like leather footwear also if at all possible.


    DesertFox4
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    912 ULS Tri-gear


  9. #9
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    Default Re: In flight fires

    My car caught fire one day driving home. Yes, it had fuel injection. The fuel rail leaked on the spark plug, didn't take long to roast my supra.
    I firmly believe there should be NOTHING burnable under the hood. That means no plastic or vynal covered wires, just metal and sicone sheets, tubing, spark plug wires... everything !!!! (inside the plane, that's not a bad idea too.)

    Roger



    Quote Originally Posted by jonbakerok View Post
    That Ravin was running a recently installed Corvette conversion, complete with high-pressure automotive fuel injection.

    Maybe it's just coincidence, but it seems like every time I hear about a crash caused by an in-flight fire, it's an auto conversion and fuel injection. That was true of the one Kitfox fire and crash that I'm aware of, which had a way-too-big Subaru installed up front. And there was also an RV6 with a Chevy V6 conversion in Oklahoma that I remember from about 8 years ago. And Bud's previous crash four years ago was another Corvette conversion.

    I don't mean to diminish the issue. Frankly, the Kitfox fuel system has always worried me, and I'm plumbed most of my cockpit in aluminum for that very reason. But since most of us are running a carb with gravity feed, at least if something breaks we won't be pumping fuel on a hot engine at 35 PSI!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: In flight fires

    What kind of brought this up was not only the recent crashes but also I noticed on my firewall blanket, the gray covering has some some heat damage. This occurred before I got it and the engine only ran 17 hours so I want to make sure I do everything I can to prevent a fire. I too have all aluminum from the header tank to the aux pump and then all the way to the gascolator then firesleeved rubber hose to the fuel pump. I am concerned about the exhaust system and was thinking about maybe wrapping the exhaust pipes that are in close proximity to things that can melt i.e. firewall blanket covering, heater hoses, etc. with that exhaust wrap that you can buy for wrapping headers. Seem like this would keep the heat inside the pipes. I attached some pics of the damage that I am talking about.
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