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Thread: EFWD Build

  1. #361
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    Eddie - I'm assuming you are using an HVLP sprayer.

    Are you using the recommended tip size - usually a 3 for primer?

    Is the pressure set to deliver the recommended psi WITH the trigger pulled AND being read at the gun. You don't need or want a glossy finish on the primer. Light coats after each tacks up would be much better.

    As for the depressions, yes probably soft backing on sand paper. Use a hard back and diagonal cross patterns. Everything shows up once painted! As you are finding out.

    Also, if you spray for prolonged periods the air in the hose gets hot which contributes to runs - shorter intervals and/or a bigger tank work better.

    If you don't have a water separator and/or filter drier - you need one. If your gun starts spurting out water droplets in the paint you will be doing it over (can look a bit like orange peel too).

    Once you are set up, go get a big piece of shiny cheap hardboard at the Home Depot aviation store and practice on that till you get the psi and pattern right (should be shaped like a semi fat cigar) and gun movement speed right to avoid drips. Thinner, 1/2 overlapping coats are always better for primer - it just needs to be built up to an even thickness so you can sand smooth to like 600 grit for color. Hardboard will act similarly to gelcoat.

    Paint is an ARTTT = Aggravating Results Two or Three Times! Once you get it down though you'll be fine!

    Greg

  2. #362
    Senior Member efwd's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    Hello Greg. Thanks for that. I have most things mentioned covered. Honestly, I have no idea about the tip size. It think it is a good tip since I have achieved good results for the most part. Pressure is set at the tank with the the trigger squeezed plus a margin of error for pressure drop through the length of hose. Since the gun instructions provide a range of pressure for which it should use I didn't concern myself with exact pressures. Maybe I am incorrect but I have what seems to be a good spray pattern. I used the recommended point of a "wet coat" prescribed by the Poly Fiber product instructions. Yes an HVLP gun on a compressed air compressor vs a HVLP fan. Oddly enough, the best finish I achieved was on the spinner cone. I new that was probably going to turn out the worst. Surprised. I know why I got the runs. Poor technique. What is interesting is what you said about the glossy finish not being desired in the primer. I will modify my thinking I guess. I don't really know what would consitute a "wet coat" I suppose. I thought that the sanding of the primer to provide tooth for the color would "neutralize" any gloss concern in the primer, No? I accept the fact this paint job isn't going to be a professional appearing job so thats OK. I have Oratex fabric so it won't be necessary to have a nice gloss or anything. I just would like to avoid orange peel and runs. The fact that, for the most part, the super fill is my most troublesome spot and technique being the other, I was hoping to get that figured out so I don't keep battling that part. Technique will just have to be refined. Thank You again.
    Eddie

  3. #363
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    Hi Eddie,

    Yes the sanding will flatten gloss to get tooth for subsequent coats. Just meant that I wouldn't be trying for a gloss coat. When they say wet - they mean complete wet coat as it's applied but not necessarily glossy. I usually use 1/2 overlapping coats to achieve this

    The gun will have a pretty wide psi range, but Polyfiber should have a much closer number they recommend for their products and it can be different for different types of paint (primer vs color vs clear). I'd be looking for Polyfibers numbers. It's not just the pattern but the velocity out of the gun to atomize the paint fine enough and "push" it to the material hard enough so it will flow. THe "HV" is important and the "LP" is kind of a misnomer.

    I would invest in a gauge at the gun, they are pretty cheap and takes the guesswork out of it. You'd be suprised what kind of drop you can get out of a quick connect fitting that you won't even hear leaking with the compressor running!

    Orange peel often occurs with to low a pressure as the air velocity is to low to finely atomize the paint and so big droplets result and the low velocity make it harder to get the paint to "push" onto the material and to "flow" out evenly. I've sometimes even shot a 5 psi or so higher that recommended to get a good spray - can also depend on ambient temp and humidity. So everytime I spray it might be a little different psi, so I always do test sprays every time.

    Spray distance and speed is the next culprit. To far and/or to fast and it may even dry before it hits the material or seem very grainy or thin. To close and/or to slow and will get to wet to quick and will run instead of flow.

    Pressure first then speed and distance (just like golf)!

    Greg

    You'll get it.

  4. #364
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    Greg, I'm about 3 months away from painting but thanks for Painting 101 advice. I've taken notes.

    Eddie, really looking forward to seeing your colour scheme.
    David
    SS7 Builder

  5. #365
    Senior Member efwd's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    Thanks Greg. I have a regulator actually. I just need to run to the Home Depot aviation supply and get a fitting so that I can get it attached. I will definitely reference the manual for the specified pressure. How long do you think I must wait after the primer dries before I can take sand paper to the runs? Poly Fiber says I have to wait a week before scuffing and painting. Just wondering if I can address the runs sooner? Thank you.
    David, Imagine Silver and yellow. Hell, you might say Grey as everyone thinks I have just got the Poly Spray on it now. Now I am wishing I had polished my flapperons. I love polished aluminum. Hopefully as this paint is finished I wont have to mess with it like I would polished aluminum. The prep work for getting the poly tone product to stick to aluminum is pretty involved. Sand, Clean, Alodine, Rinse, Dry etc. etc.. Maybe I will get to the Alodine process today.
    Eddie

  6. #366
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    I have pleny of experience painting, but none with their products. I'm guessing it takes that long to harden without pulling or gumming up. The runs being thicker might take even longer to set up. I'm going to defer to others that have used their product - maybe someone else can chime in.

    I've had good luck with polished aluminum holding up for quite some time (couple of years) with a good quality wax - Mothers or polish - Simichrome.

    Greg

  7. #367
    Senior Member efwd's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    Im a addressing the Pitot install. The static port is such an easy install but I don't recall ever noticing a pitot static port mounted on any Kitfox I have seen. Where are you guys putting that port? How erroneous would the readings be if one were just to leave the static line open at the instrument without an exterior port mounted? I suppose the cockpit interior would be a little bit lower pressure since the air is rushing around it on the outside.
    Eddie

  8. #368
    Administrator DesertFox4's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    Left mine on my model 4 behind the panel with a small filter on the end and it worked perfect. Doing the same on the 7SS.


    DesertFox4
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  9. #369
    Senior Member jrevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    Quote Originally Posted by efwd View Post
    Im a addressing the Pitot install. The static port is such an easy install but I don't recall ever noticing a pitot static port mounted on any Kitfox I have seen. Where are you guys putting that port? How erroneous would the readings be if one were just to leave the static line open at the instrument without an exterior port mounted? I suppose the cockpit interior would be a little bit lower pressure since the air is rushing around it on the outside.
    Eddie
    They're sometimes hard to spot, but I think most install them on the fuselage sides as shown by Kitfox. I made a static "mast" in conjunction with my pitot tube - a design that I'm familiar with and know works well. Steve and others have had good results doing it as he described. That can be a little bit of a crap-shoot since the openings in the fuselage to outside air, doors, vent systems, etc., etc., can vary a lot from airplane to airplane. The cabin pressure can be equal to static outside air pressure, greater, or less. You won't know for sure, but it's probable that it will be variable. It may not be noticed, or make enough of a difference to care... but who knows?
    John Evens
    Arvada, CO
    Kitfox SS7 N27JE
    EAA Lifetime
    Chap. 43 honorary Lifetime

  10. #370
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    Default Re: EFWD Build

    On the Eurofox they seem to leave the static ports open to the atmosphere of the cockpit but I'm going to buck the trend and do things very slightly differently.

    First of all, even if I was going to use the cockpit then I would still join all the static ports together so they are all working off the same pressure, instead of their own little local sources. Probably over the top but I think it would help to eliminate some errors. I would then put a filter at the end of that line to stop any nasties getting into the tube.

    My one-step-further-idea is to then run that tube into the inside of the wing. Since the wing is exposed to atmosphere then it should, I believe, provide a stable environment to measure static pressure, whereas the cockpit is a bit more 'unstable' because of opening ventilation vents, turning on heater blowers, opening doors in flight etc. Depending on where the static measuring is done, compared to these sources of air movement, it could be that the local pressure is reduced below static pressure...it causes your speed to look good but not my OCD for getting things as accurate as possible

    On the other hand I might well be wrong about everything.....again.

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