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Thread: considering the purchase of a kitfox 4

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    Default considering the purchase of a kitfox 4

    I am new to the forum and experimental planes as well. I would appreciate some advice! After flying high performance 4 seaters like Bellanca Vikings, I have the itch to fly quite a bit lower and slower. After a few months of google research I narrowed my search to planes with side by side seating and folding wings. I simply do not have time for a full build from scratch.

    Yesterday I put a deposit on a 1995 finished in 1999 classic 4 (N61AC) that had been damaged in 2008 and purchased by a man that attempted to get it flying again by purchasing new wing kits. Unfortunately he died before completion in 2012. The plane needs cleaning from seating in a covered barn for a few years now, everything firewall forward, new instruments, new engine, and new prop (at a minimum). Basically for less than $2000 I am getting the undamaged covered fuselage , in tack landing gear, intact covered tail and rudder, 80% completed replacement wing kit and a used Subaru engine(which I will probably sell off cause I have no history on it)

    My questions, if other members would be so kind to answer.

    1. How difficult is re-registration (FAA says its expired in Oct 2013). Be advised before you answer that the man that died can't sign the title and his friend that is selling the plane is not the owner. I will be calling the FAA tomorrow with this question.
    2. How difficult is re certification assuming that I purchase a new powerplant and prop? The FAA says it once had a air worthiness cert but it is not with the paperwork.
    3. No build logs accompany the purchase. Since the wings are still uncovered, it needs a new panel and new powerplant I am not very concerned with this. Should I be?
    4. The most important question... is this a deal, based on what I have explained, one that I need to run from or is this a plane that could be flying legally and safely in 100hours or so?

  2. #2

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    Apr 2013
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    Default Re: considering the purchase of a kitfox 4

    Hi Todd,

    Do you have taildragger experience? I don't know about a IV but my II is twitchier on the ground than a Cub or Champ, some dual was a good thing, just a thought for later.

    All the best.

    Larry

  3. #3
    Senior Member rv9ralph's Avatar
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    Default Re: considering the purchase of a kitfox 4

    You can get copies of all the documents held by the FAA at the time the Airworthiness Certificate was issued (affidavits by builder, W&B and Operating Limitations (which are part of the AW Cert and must be carried in the aircraft). These are available from the FAA in .pdf format, contact the local FSDO if you decide to purchase.
    Ralph

  4. #4

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    Default Re: considering the purchase of a kitfox 4

    Thank you Ralph

    That is the insight into this I was looking for!

  5. #5
    Senior Member Av8r_Sed's Avatar
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    Default Re: considering the purchase of a kitfox 4

    Hi Todd,
    Welcome to the forum. First of all, snap it up. At worst you could part it out and get your money back.

    Model IV's came in two flavors: the early ones were specified at 1050 lbs gross weight. The later ones were beefed up a bit to 1200 gross. The latter ones are more desirable for the greater useful load and the possibility of a bit heavier engine. Find out the serial number to determine which this one is.

    You said you would dump the Subaru which might be a good thing because they're a tad on the heavy side. There have been a number of different engines used, but the common, albeit somewhat expensive choice is a Rotax 912. Mid time examples are going for around $10K these days.

    If you want more input, go get some good pictures and post them on the condition of the project.

    Finally, since you weren't the original builder and don't have the FAA Repairman's Certificate, you can do the work, but you need to have the work signed off by an A&P with inspection authorization. If you make any major changes (engine) you also need to submit a form to the FAA with new weight & balance and related data.
    -- Paul S
    Model III SN910
    582 IVO Med

  6. #6
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Default Re: considering the purchase of a kitfox 4

    I doubt very much that 100 hrs or so will have it flying. Maybe 500 hrs or so.
    Jim Ott
    Portland, OR
    Kitfox SS7 flying
    Rotax 912ULS

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: considering the purchase of a kitfox 4

    My understanding is that anyone can work on their experimental aircraft and it does not require an AnP to sign off the work. If the aircraft is not in "annual", then the yearly conditional inspection has to be performed by an AnP (doesn't need to have the IA) If you have a repairman's certificate for that aircraft than you can do your own conditional inspection. The part about notifying the FAA if you make a major change (like an engine) is correct. I have had FAA inspections after I changed an engine in an Avid, without an AnP signoff on the work and the FAA inspector had no issue with that. If I am wrong, I would like to know the FAR that says I am. :-) Jim Chuk

    PS If the plane was close to me, I would want it. Should be worth it in parts alone easy. I remember getting a quote from Skystar (Kitfox) for a model 4 wing kit and they wanted $4500 and I don't think that included the flaperons. That was almost 10 years ago. Glad I didn't order them, cause that's about the time they were going under, and I might have paid and not got the wings like others who got burned by them. Just incase some are not aware of what I'm referring to, Skystar was the owner of Kitfox before the current one who seems to fill all orders placed with him.

  8. #8
    Senior Member SkyPirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: considering the purchase of a kitfox 4

    something to consider..had he hung the new wings to the fuselage yet? easy way to check is see if the holes where drilled for the carry thru,..if they were,,check the paperwork to see if he had them swept forward to accommodate heavier engine,..if he did..before you cover wings the front wing connect holes might have to be modified
    Chase
    Model 5 OutBack
    912 UL

  9. #9
    Senior Member Rodney's Avatar
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    Default Re: considering the purchase of a kitfox 4

    Todd,

    Years ago I found my Dad's Stinson in a barn in Arkansas. Dad owned the airplane in 1953-4. It had been wrecked, but I was able to buy it. I found that the logs had been stolen out of the airplane when it was owned by a guy in Florida. An AP had re-constituted the logs.

    Said all that to say this: I got on the FAA website and using the N number of the airplane found that I could order a CD that had all of the previous logs and data, all the way back to 1946 when the plane was built. I think it was only $10.00 to get all that. I may be wrong on that number; but it wasn't very much.

    It was neat, because I found the date Dad bought the airplane and also sold it.

    Anyway, getting that info from the FAA may be of some value and help.

    Regards
    Rodney

  10. #10
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: considering the purchase of a kitfox 4

    Checking the FAA registration sight it says 61AC is Deregistered. See below link. http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...Numbertxt=61AC

    I do not know how difficult it would be to get it ReRegistered, but I would be checking it, befor I paid in full! I believe you need to get the manufacturer (Manufacturer Name CATCHOT ANGUS) involved to get the Airplane reregistered. Call the FAA and ask.
    Paul Zimmermann
    LSRM-A
    Garland, Texas

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