Model IV-1200 / Model IV-1050 How do you Know ?

[kmach]

Hi, I have come across a Model IV-1200 for sale ,at least that's what it is advertised as. What are the distinguishing features if any,that a person can identify the aircraft as a model IV-1200 or model IV-1050 ? I received info from the seller saying it was a Denney kit, so I want to make sure it is a 1200. Its aircraft ID plate has a gross of 1232 lbs and a serial number that doesn't correspond to any models in the history pages . I know the serial number on the fuselage tubing would help identify model weight and manufacturer (what are the locations again of the manufacturers serial number on the fuselage frame?), but if it is covered up , what else can a person use ? Vertical fin size? rudder size? anything else ? It has a 912s on it , if that makes any difference. Thanks all; Kevin

[Av8r3400]

The size of the fin will be an easy tell from a 1050 to a 1200.

What is the s/n that you were given? My 1200 is a "Classic" model IV and the s/n starts with a "C".

[t j]

Kevin, put a pair of calipers on the lift struts, landing gear tubes, spar and strut carry through tubes. They are one inch OD on the 1200. The rudder is 53" tall.

The serial number on the classic 4 is on the triangle of metal that the front of the horizontal stab bolts to. Not sure but on the model 4 1200 the serial number may be on the flat metal that the two center seat belt shoulder harnesses attach to.

The builder may have put their own serial number on the data plate.

Edited, oops, you cant tell the difference with these measurements. See post below.

[SkyPirate]

on the model 4's serial numbers 1723 and up are 1200 's 1722 and down are 1050's

Chase

[jdmcbean]

Chase is correct.. The ONLY way to tell is by serial number. Measurments will not.

[kmach]

This is the serial number I was given from the seller ,CO4020294 , It does not match any numbers on the kitfox homepage- history- model IV-1200 serial numbers, like mentioned earlier by Chase. Are the serial numbers on the frame easy to find/read on a finished flying airframe, the one by the shoulder harness attachment point I think might be, but is the serial number at the vertical fin easily accessed/read ? Kevin

[DesertFox4]

kmach, my Kitfox is a Classic model 4 which I purchased from SkyStar (John McBean) in 2002. It has a serial number that starts with a C-0202-XXXX.
I'm pretty sure this model 4 is also a Classic 4. It would have the weldments for the nose gear conversion right from the factory. It is also strengthened around the rear gear mounting area for the landing loads when in the tri-gear configuration. The differences in the tubing in this area aren't real apparent unless you know what your looking for. The best tell tale is the nose gear attachments. If it's the Classic , it is the latest iteration of the Model 4 lineage. It would be hard to discern from other indications as any 4-1200 could have any Kitfox 4 mod on it including any of the Speedster mods.
Also the builder has registered it as 1232 lbs. This would coincide with the FAA's almost adopting that number for max take off weight under the Sport Pilot rules. They later decided to use 1320 lbs. My guess is the builder wanted all the lbs's he could legally get and 1232 was floating around at the same time my model 4 was finished. BTW. My Classic 4 is also registered at 1232 lbs.
Also the Rotax 912S 100 hp was getting to be a popular engine choice then so again I would think it is a Classic 4. Not many model 4's yet have the 912S compared to the 80 hp 912 although some are converting now.
Good luck. Sounds like it'll be a great performing aircraft. Let me know if you don't take it. I have a friend in Colorado that may be interested.

[HighWing]

I agree mostly.

The serial number of my 1993 IV-1200 was CCU008. This converts to the third month of the third year after 1990 - the U is for the standard Model IV-1200 vs. the Speedster which would have a S in the U position. The 008 is the eighth kit shipped that month. This was the initial new numbering system Skystar inititiated after the acquisition. I did receive the kit in March of 1993. I have also spoken to other early Skystar customers and their delivery dates are consistent with their serial numbers. My new 1992 IV-1200 kit has a serial number 1746 and was a Denney kit and was deliverd closer to the birth of the 1200. At the same time I bought this previously owned kit, a frieind bought a similar IV-1050 and it did have the shorter vertical fin and rudder. I suspect this could be one easy visual sign, but then there are the IIIs with the IV wings out there and you would have to look at the flaperon mixer and other hidden features to be sure. This would difinitely point out serial number as the key indicator, but none of the numbers suggested as indicators are within the systems involved. Maybe the C followed by the longer number is consistent with the numbering system used on the (officially designated) Classic IV, but to determine the genetics of the early IVs other numbers are involved.

This brings up the whole idea of what is a Classic IV. It has long been my understanding that the Classic designation came after a short period when the IV had been discontinued by the factory and when resurrected was given the Classic IV name a la Coka Cola after they resurrected the old formulation for their soft drink as a result of a pretty strong public reaction from their il advised formula change.

[HighWing]

I have to make a correction. I re read the responses and I believe Chase is spot on.

[Jerrytex]

So what kit would ser # JCU-104 be? Classic 4 or 4-1050