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Thread: Hello from TN

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Clarksville, TN
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    5

    Default Hello from TN

    Good morning TeamKitfox from Northern Middle TN. Been lurking a short while and interested in the S7 Speedster. Hoping to check it out at Sun N Fun and Oshkosh this year if it's there. I'm currently in a partnership in a C172, but looking to build in the not to distant future.

    My burning question is, can anyone tell me what the width of the fuselage at the seatback is? I'm fairly broad shouldered. I sat in the Rans S-20 last year at Oshkosh, and it fit me pretty well. I know the Speedster and the S-20 are within a couple of inches to each other, but the specs for the Speedster lists 43" and the Rans is 46". Both airplanes have doors that bow out a bit for more room, but I'm trying to figure out how much on the Kitfox. Any insights? Thanks for a great forum!


    V/r,

    Brad

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Port Orange, Fl.
    Posts
    57

    Default Re: Hello from TN

    Before deciding on what to build one of the planes I flew was the S20. I personally could not tell the difference in cabin width between the S20 and a Kitfox with bubble doors. You are definitely doing the right thing before buying by asking questions on planes your interested in. I would also suggest you fly them as well. I know Rans will take you up in anything they have at a show, I think for $50.00. You can contact John or reach out to others here for a ride in an S7. I contacted John, and Brandon with Stick and Rudder was in my area training a customer who had just taken delivery of a S7 and I was able to take a ride with him. I am 5'7" and around 160lbs so it is a little less of a concern for me. As far as the overall experience between the two, I guess by me being registered on this forum you know what my choice was..

    Brett
    mykitlog.com/bholland

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Clarksville, TN
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Hello from TN

    Brett,

    Thanks for the reply and info. I hear what you are saying! I'm registered on both forums, so I am getting no work done, between reading up on both airplanes. Can you tell me what drove you to the Kitfox over the Rans? I've never built anything before, but I am an A&P and have been working on helicopters for the past 20 years.

  4. #4
    Senior Member aviator79's Avatar
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    Dec 2016
    Location
    Los Alamos, NM
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    913

    Default Re: Hello from TN

    The cabin width numbers on their own are of limited value. The shape of the cabin and the shape of the occupants play a big role. The only way to know how it fits is to sit in both.

    I didn't fly the RANS, but looked at them at shows. The Kitfox to me felt like a more refined product. I made a weighted average spreadsheet for comparing various aircraft, and two of the factors in that sheet are the availability of a builder community and factory support. Our EAA tech counselor claims that 75% of aircraft kits don't get completed by the first owner (full disclosure: I don't know where that comes from, but this guy usually has good data.) A great design is worthless if you never get it flying because you get stuck or so frustrated it becomes a chore to work on. So I believe that available builder support and quality documentation should be weighted pretty strongly in this decision. Kitfox scores very strongly here.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Clarksville, TN
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Hello from TN

    Good points. I look forward to checking Kitfox out at Sun N Fun. I'll definitely see if I can find one to sit in.

    I definitely like the performance numbers I see on the website, and from what I have read so far here, they are pretty accurate.

    I have also heard that statement also about a high percentage not being completed by their first owner. I'm hoping to not be one of those statistics. I've been following the homebuilt movement since the late 80's, but never got my toe in the water. Time to change that!

    V/r,

    Brad

  6. #6
    Senior Member ken nougaret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    778

    Default Re: Hello from TN

    Brad,
    I will be st Sun N Fun most of the week. You are welcome to sit in my plane. It does not have the bubble doors but you can get a feel for it with the standard doors.
    Ken
    SS7 O-200 Whirlwind

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Clarksville, TN
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Hello from TN

    Quote Originally Posted by ken nougaret View Post
    Brad,
    I will be st Sun N Fun most of the week. You are welcome to sit in my plane. It does not have the bubble doors but you can get a feel for it with the standard doors.
    Ken
    Ken,

    That would be awesome. I'm bringing my wife so we can try on some airplanes and she can get a feel for them as well. Thanks!


    V/r,

    Brad

  8. #8
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    2,960

    Default Re: Hello from TN

    One big difference between Kitfox and the others is the flaperons. I know there are lots of personal opinions and pros & cons on this, but here is what attracted me to flaperons and continues to please me as I now am almost to 700 hours on my Kitfox SS7:

    Their being located below the wing in relatively undisturbed air they never seem to stall since the main wing will stall first. When the main wing stalls, the nose will drop (gently) and sometimes one wing will start to drop if you are not coordinated. When this happens you still have control with the ailerons (flaperons) and can easily raise that wing with just stick side motion. You don't have to use rudder as we all were taught, unless of course you want to. What this does for me is gives me a lot more confidence and stable feel to come in on a very slow short field landing approach.

    Full span flaperons also give instant fingertip roll control.

    Of course I also think the flaperons give the Kitfox a cool and unique appearance.

    The only downside to flaperons I have found is not as good steep descent rate as regular barn door flaps, but that one deficiency is easily overcome with the Kitfox ability to execute a very aggressive forward slip under full stable control with or without flap(erons) deployed.
    Jim Ott
    Portland, OR
    Kitfox SS7 flying
    Rotax 912ULS

  9. #9
    Senior Member aviator79's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Los Alamos, NM
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    913

    Default Re: Hello from TN

    Quote Originally Posted by jiott View Post
    The only downside to flaperons I have found is not as good steep descent rate as regular barn door flaps, but that one deficiency is easily overcome with the Kitfox ability to execute a very aggressive forward slip under full stable control with or without flap(erons) deployed.
    I'll add a little bit. The Flaperons simplify the build vs having twice as many surfaces to assemble and install. The Kitfox system is really simple. I'm sure this is at least part of the motivation for flaperons in the RV-12.

    On the downside, adverse yaw is more pronounced when using the flaps. I consider myself pretty good about keeping my feet awake, but there was some learning curve keeping it coordinated with the flaps in. I found that leading my turns with a pretty good amount of rudder kept the ball closer to center.

  10. #10
    Senior Member jiott's Avatar
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    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portland, OR
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    2,960

    Default Re: Hello from TN

    Just a comment about the RV-12 and some others that use flaperons, but they do not hang below the wing in cleaner air. I have not flown an RV-12, but I would very much doubt that they maintain good aileron roll control deep into the stall as does the Kitfox.
    Jim Ott
    Portland, OR
    Kitfox SS7 flying
    Rotax 912ULS

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