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Thread: Re-registering kitfox possible?

  1. #11

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    Oak Harbor,Wa
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    Default Re: Re-registering kitfox possible?

    About the repairman certificate: AC 65-23A ( change 1) para 4(a), applicant must attest to building more that 50% of the aircraft, which must be notarized.
    Para 4 (e), Present satisfactory evidence such as construction log book, pictures, drawings. Para 7. certificate should be surrendered whenever A/C is destroyed or sold, however in the latter situation the repairman may elect to retain the certificate in order to perform condition inspections for the new owner.

    AC 20-27G appendix 8 is used as a work sheet to calculate the 51% and should be presented to the DAR along with other evidence of being the builder.

  2. #12
    Senior Member av8rps's Avatar
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    Oct 2009
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    Junction City, WI
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    Default Re: Re-registering kitfox possible?

    A friend of mine scratch built an award winning plane (from plans) but was denied a repairman certificate because he didn't have a photograph builders log. So I know that can happen.

    Ironically, it was the 3rd plane he built, and he had no issue getting repairman certificates for the first two. But the inspector on the 3rd one had decided because he only had a hand written building log that he wasn't eligible for a repairman certificate. But my friend challenged the FAA, using the regulation itself as his defense, and he was given his repairman certificate.

    Now I don't think it should be a big deal to do a photo log if you are building an airplane. But the reg does not require that. So until it does, I think allowing inspectors to make up their own rules will just lead to a loss of more freedoms and more rules that will ultimately limit more of what we can do with our experimental aircraft.

    Sorry about standing on my soapbox, but I feel strongly that if you don't exercise your rights you are likely to lose them. It's still America last I knew.

  3. #13

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    Apr 2012
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    Oak Harbor,Wa
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    Default Re: Re-registering kitfox possible?

    Your soapbox stand is words well said.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Delta Whisky's Avatar
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    Dec 2017
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    Amissville, VA
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    637

    Default Re: Re-registering kitfox possible?

    There's plenty of great experiences and knowledge contained in these responses. I'll add my two bits this way:

    Lots of folks think that there is one FAA for the good ol US of A. In my experience that is definitely NOT true. There are almost as many FAAs as there are ACO, MIDO and FSDO offices. They have a habit of interpreting the regs differently. So, unless you have experience with a particular person or office, why risk asking a question that might be answered in a way that you don't like?

    I would not start by calling your local FSDO office. Instead, I recommend that you start by talking to the locals that have recently acquired their AW certs and get a feeling for the attitudes of the FAA rep or DAR they worked with. Once you find one with a reputation for interpreting the regs in a manner that at least somewhat matches your plans, then talk to him/her and obtain an input as to how you can "in the interest of the administrator" do what you would like to do. Good luck, Darrel

  5. #15
    Senior Member HighWing's Avatar
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    May 2009
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    Goodyear, AZ
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    1,743

    Default Re: Re-registering kitfox possible?

    These last few responses are spot in in my experience and opinion. We had at our local FSDO a guy that loved experimental aviation. He was everyone's favorite and observing what he looked for when he examined my airplane made the FAA seem like a practical operation. Then the story a close friend and neighbor tells is worlds different than so many we hear today - especially with the DAR program. As he has told the story many times, he arranged for a man from his local FSDO - near Half Moon Bay - to come by for a pre-finish inspection. While he was there, he asked questions regarding planned build techniques and components needed to complete the project. After the many answers, the FAA guy said he would sign it off as it stood with the understanding all would be completed as planned. The Airworthiness Certificate was signed and the Repairman's Certificate was approved - airplane currently 2500 hours. I am not suggesting this is the best way, but it serves to illustrate the variety of personalities we come across in all aspects of aviation. This last sentence reminded me of the time my wife and I were entering the gate at Livermore, Alameda County, CA where I was finishing my first Model IV when a young FAA - newbie, I presume - stopped us demanding identification to verify our legitimacy being on airport property.
    Lowell Fitt
    Goodyear, AZ


    My You Tube Channel

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Las Vegas, NV
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    118

    Default Re: Re-registering kitfox possible?

    I agree, no two FSDO are the same. I recommend you first check in with the local EAA to get a good read on how your local FSDO operates. They can put you in touch with someone who has gone through the AW certification process with your local FSDO.
    Michael Meyers
    KF IV
    Las Vegas, NV

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    N Little Rock Ar
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    128

    Default Re: Re-registering kitfox possible?

    I am a DAR in Arkansas ( for 30 years) feel free to call if you want.

    I would not call the FSDO .

    David Kelm
    501 804 9285

    Kitfox 7SS 912iS
    Garmin G3X Touch

  8. #18
    Senior Member
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    Jul 2011
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    milwaukee wi
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    Default Re: Re-registering kitfox possible?

    I used the FSDO. They came out in less than a week, went thru the paperwork and the inspection in about five hours. One minor error in the paperwork and a suggestion to improve the fuel tank vent tubes. One visit is all it took, best of all, they are free. This guy had been a C-17 mechanic in the Air Force and an airline mechanic and IA after that (many years of actual experience), before joining the FAA.

  9. #19
    Super Moderator Av8r3400's Avatar
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    Jan 2009
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    Merrill, WI
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    Default Re: Re-registering kitfox possible?

    Milwaukee FISDO now takes months to schedule a visit to northern Wisconsin.
    Av8r3400
    Kitfox Model IV
    The Mangy Fox
    912UL 105hp Zipper
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  10. #20

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Las Vegas, NV
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    Default Re: Re-registering kitfox possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Av8r3400 View Post
    Milwaukee FISDO now takes months to schedule a visit to northern Wisconsin.
    Some of the FSDO offices have some really weird practices. An A&P buddy of mine has to drive by the Riverside, CA FSDO when returning home from Aircraft Spruce so he figured he would stop by the FSDO to drop off some paperwork. Unfortunately, the person in the FSDO refused to unlock the door and insisted he slide the paperwork under the door, which he did. This was during normal business hours! I guess they take their appointments only policy literally.
    Michael Meyers
    KF IV
    Las Vegas, NV

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