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Thread: Ignition Gremlin

  1. #11
    Super Moderator Av8r3400's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ignition Gremlin

    These are all good ideas and I thank you for all of them!

    I should be getting my modules back tomorrow and further testing will commence as time allows.

    (Dam day job getting in the way of my flying fun time... )
    Av8r3400
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  2. #12
    Super Moderator Av8r3400's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ignition Gremlin

    The ignition problem has been found.

    After hours of testing and cross checking, re-testing and re-cross checking, the modules were finally found to be the culprit. Even though I had sent them both down to Lockwood for "testing" and they told me they were good. I found out later, that Lockwood can only test for function, not for "proper" function.

    I believe there is a ground fault in both of the modules which cross feeds back and forth, but only when one of the two modules is shut off. I tried replacing each of the modules one at a time and the problem persisted until both were replaced. When they are both "on" they seem to function properly (but I didn't trust them).

    What to do? Well, both modules need to be replaced. Yes, that hurt$. A lot. The modules on my engine are referred to as 4x1 modules, because they have a 4-pole plug and several single wires. These (of course) are the most expensive modules available because they are the oldest design (mid 90s). The latest model module is over $300 cheaper, but they come with 2 6-pole (6x2) plugs. So the guys at Lockwood were nice enough to include a parts list for all of the little "bits" to convert to the 6x2 module, which also includes the factory soft start feature. Now, even with all of the little bits, the conversion is still several hundred dollars less expensive than going with the original modules AND they are available off the shelf where the others would have to be ordered from Europe. (Where apparently there is some little guy, locked in a closet, who makes these things one at a time…)

    So, today I took the (very) painful step in ordering these parts from LEAF. I will post more details when I have the parts in hand and do the conversion.
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  3. #13
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    Default Re: Ignition Gremlin

    Larry, I feel your pain. Had to replace both modules on my 912ULS a couple years ago. Could not get them in the US, so had to get from Rotax Canada, about 1400.00. Good luck.

    Dick B

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Ignition Gremlin

    Dick B. You mentioned Rotax Canada in your post, and I was wondering about prices on rotax parts from them. The Canadian dollar is now about .75 compared to the American dollar. I wouldn't think the parts in Canada all went up by 25% when The value of the US dollar went this high. The Euro is way down compared to the US dollar, close to 25% in the last 5 years (1.40 -1 then and now about 1.1-1) That alone should have caused the prices we are paying for Rotax parts to go down, being as how they come from Austria. I suppose Rotax is just gouging US customers for that much more now. Jim Chuk

  5. #15
    Administrator DesertFox4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ignition Gremlin

    Hoping that this gets you back in the air. Others may need to go through this conversion process if their older modules go the way yours went. Good luck.


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  6. #16
    Super Moderator Av8r3400's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ignition Gremlin

    The job is done! We are back in business with the engine running excellent!!


    The conversion went fairly easily with the help of the wiring diagram in the heavy maintenance manual.

    Here is the list of part numbers I used to convert my engine from the "old" style 4x1-pin modules to the new 6x6-pin modules.

    2 - 965-444 6x6 CDI Modules
    1 - 853-125 Connector Bracket
    2 - 265-265 Connector Housing
    2 - 265-269 Connector Housing
    12 - 265-210 Connector Pins
    12 - 265-275 Connector Sockets
    24 - 260-130 Cable Grommets

    The connector pins and sockets are the "guts" to the weatherproof plugs. They absolutely require the proper crimper tool to attach the wire. See the photo of the crimper jaws below. This isn't a regular crimper it makes a "B" shaped double crimp to the wire and the other circular jaw closes the pin around the weather proof grommet.

    The other photo is of the finished installation. As you can see, many of the wires needed to be extended. The ground and power wires going to the coils needed to be extended. This was required mostly because of where I have the modules located on the engine mount rather than the OEM location on the engine itself. The "connector bracket" listed above is a metal bracket that holds the plugs steady all but eliminating the possibility of the wiggling wire breakage problem we all have heard of or experienced.

    You can also see that I am a huge fan of labeling everything. All of the coils and their leads are labeled to show what they are and where they need to go. This was partially due to the testing and diagnosis exercises I was doing, but it also proved very necessary during the conversion wiring. You'll wind up with a ton of spaghetti and this can easily get messed up and hooked up wrong.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Dave S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ignition Gremlin

    Hi Larry,

    Glad this worked out for you. A good reference for others in the future.

    A couple observations about the good procedures you have used in your wiring.

    1) Marking....this is a big deal...each of us needs to remember that one so when we need to dig into a circuit down the road....we can know what is what. One of my constant companions in the hangar is a sharpie.....good for marking what goes where, dating replacement parts and recording frequently used things like torque, spark plug gap,etc right on the engine where it is easily found.

    2) Securements....I see that you have tied down & bundles wires so they don't flop around - good for everyone to remember. One of the EAA Tech Counselors in our chapter put it this way....."Design your wired securements like a good bra....the idea is to lift, separate and immobilize"

    Dave S

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Ignition Gremlin

    Did you have to essentially build a new wiring harness also?
    I had issues with mine when I first bought the plane and even though I fixed several 'breaks' in the wiring, I have never felt 100% confident in its durability. When repairing the breaks, I was quite surprised at the bad quality of the wire.

    My thoughts lately have been to reconstruct a new harness out of better quality wiring.
    Last edited by WWhunter; 03-28-2016 at 07:35 AM.

  9. #19
    Super Moderator Av8r3400's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ignition Gremlin

    I really didn't build an entire new harness. I did extend the low voltage coil wires both hot and ground to properly connect them using the bracket. I did also need to extend the red power wires off the stator and the switched ground wires, again to reach where I wanted to mount the plugs.

    The new modules have much more flexible and higher quality wires.
    Av8r3400
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  10. #20

    Default Re: Ignition Gremlin

    Is this ignition problem typical? I'm facing very similar issue...

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