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Thread: John's Build

  1. #461
    Senior Member jrevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: John's Build

    Over 6 years ago I hung a couple of strips of the white Oratex that I used, in the back of my house with an unobstructed Southern view. We are at an elevation of about 5700 ft., and Colorado is known for a semi-arid environment and a great number of sunny days/year. So for those 6+ years these strips have been hanging there 24 hours a day, 365 days/ year. I finally got tired of looking at them and took them down. I wish I had tested them each year, but I didn't. Anyway, they are definitely un-airworthy now, and they tear fairly easily... they've taken a real beating! I haven't really proven anything except that it's obviously unwise to keep Oratex (or any fabric covered airplane) outdoors, exposed to the sun & weather for years. Especially in a climate such as here in Colorado. Most who read this are probably thinking, "well duh!"


    6year test.jpg
    John Evens
    Arvada, CO
    Kitfox SS7 N27JE
    EAA Lifetime
    Chap. 43 honorary Lifetime

  2. #462
    Senior Member Kitfox Pilot's Avatar
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    Default Re: John's Build

    That's very interesting to me John to have your real data.
    Lars will tell you they have planes setting out with it on for 10 years and are just like new.
    I always wondered about that cause I know what sun does to any fabric. Thanks.
    I think I will hang one of my picture frames that I test covered with oratex out for a few years.
    Harlan and Susan Payne
    Sold Piper Archer
    Flying FarmFox STI Kitfox N61HP
    Rotax 915is, Airmaster prop
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5A...oCVUP15G0uB-Yw

  3. #463
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    Default Re: John's Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitfox Pilot View Post
    ........Lars will tell you they have planes setting out with it on for 10 years and are just like new.
    .......
    Yeah I have heard this line from Lars as well Harlan but with the added caveat that they set outside in Alaska for 10 years and still looked like new. While I am using Oratex too and think it's a good covering product, afraid I didn't believe that one for a minute. I would agree with John that it doesn't matter what fabric covering you use - you leave it out for long periods of time - you lose it. Even metal with paint will have issues if you don't take care of it regularly.

    Gary
    Gary (Geek) Phenning
    Leavenworth (Not the Prison), WA
    Kitfox STi in Building Stage

  4. #464
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    Default Re: John's Build

    John I just spent a while reading through your build thread. I've read through it before but it has been a while. Your workmanship is inspiring.

    Regarding the Oratex torture test results - from the picture I see above it looks like a strip of material folded in two and hung up near the fold? Assuming it gets breezy enough to separate the layers I think this would defeat the UV protection layer and allow sunlight to reach the back side of the fabric.
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  5. #465
    Senior Member jrevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: John's Build

    Thanks Alex. I think you’re exactly right, and I probably should have shared my thoughts a little more fully. This test wasn’t really indicative of any “normal” (hopefully) exposure to strong sunlight over a long period of time. Not very scientific, but interesting to see just how destructive the sunlight can be. However, even up close to where the clamp held it (severe discoloration from the rusting clamp), where exposure, if any, of the back face of the fabric was very limited, tear strength was severely reduced. The perceived tear strength was pretty much the same everywhere except for the area underneath the clamp.
    John Evens
    Arvada, CO
    Kitfox SS7 N27JE
    EAA Lifetime
    Chap. 43 honorary Lifetime

  6. #466
    Senior Member jrevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: John's Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Geek View Post
    OK John. Another subject. Way back when I was looking at things I wanted to be sure I did with my build, I liked your piece of wood you used as the rudder trim tab. Your latest pic shows it.

    Are you as happy with it in execution as you thought you would be in theory? About how along a piece did you wind up putting there? I want to know cause I want to use that idea. It's perfect.

    Geek
    I am so sorry Geek… don’t know how I missed seeing this when you posted it.

    It works great. The “wedge” is made of a little piece of oak, 5” L, 3/4” W & 3/8” H. I experimented with different sizes before settling on that. You can see it’s exact location in relation to the rudder ribs in the picture. Before covering I had installed an aluminum plate with nut inserts for that purpose. The location vertically was just a guess, but I knew it would need to be on the left side of course.
    Last edited by jrevens; 05-03-2022 at 10:28 AM.
    John Evens
    Arvada, CO
    Kitfox SS7 N27JE
    EAA Lifetime
    Chap. 43 honorary Lifetime

  7. #467
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    Default Re: John's Build

    Quote Originally Posted by jrevens View Post
    I am so sorry Geek… don’t know how I missed seeing this when you posted it.

    It works great. The “wedge” is made of a little piece of oak, 5” L, 3/4” W & 3/8” H. I experimented with different sizes before settling on that. You can see it’s exact location in relation to the rudder ribs in the picture. Before covering I had installed an aluminum plate with nut inserts for that purpose. The location vertically was just a guess, but I knew it would need to be on the left side of course.
    Yeah you got to know I was crying in my beer cause you obviously were ignoring me!!! NOT!!!! Thank you for the dimensions. What I did was make a mount on my rudder that would allow me to do something along your line of the block of wood or just add an aluminum flap (traditional style). Now that I have the size, I'm going with that cause I like the looks so much better.

    Appreciate the response John.

    Geek
    Gary (Geek) Phenning
    Leavenworth (Not the Prison), WA
    Kitfox STi in Building Stage

  8. #468
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    Default Re: John's Build

    John,
    Posting this in your thread, looking for some Oratex advice. Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks to me like the toughest place to cover on a Kitfox 5 is the spot where the vertical fin rises from the (flat) aft fuselage. I went digging into your build and it looks like you added a subtle razor back feature. Was it to address this challenge or just because you wanted to do it?

    One place the legacy polyester fabrics would make this spot easier is because they can be stretched while it is still dry fabric, where Oratex has no stretch at all until you hit it with heat and pull hard. So far what I've come up with is two ideas, both of which involve a seam across the aft fuselage. I think the easiest would be to cover each side separately, as seen in tape below:
    PXL_20220913_211503143.jpg
    I'm picturing covering right and left, then covering the flat rear deck with the seam facing aft, then a piece of edge tape up the vertical fin.

    My other idea would be to try and cover both sides with one piece, and then complete it as described above:
    PXL_20220913_211706390.jpg
    In my head I'm imagining sticking it to the curve section at first, and then pulling hard towards the top longerons and then the front and back edges. Possible or crazy? Is a razor back the only way out?
    Kitfox 5 (under construction)
    Commercial SE/ME, CFII

  9. #469
    Senior Member jrevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: John's Build

    Quote Originally Posted by alexM View Post
    John,
    Posting this in your thread, looking for some Oratex advice. Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks to me like the toughest place to cover on a Kitfox 5 is the spot where the vertical fin rises from the (flat) aft fuselage. I went digging into your build and it looks like you added a subtle razor back feature. Was it to address this challenge or just because you wanted to do it?

    One place the legacy polyester fabrics would make this spot easier is because they can be stretched while it is still dry fabric, where Oratex has no stretch at all until you hit it with heat and pull hard. So far what I've come up with is two ideas, both of which involve a seam across the aft fuselage. I think the easiest would be to cover each side separately, as seen in tape below:

    I'm picturing covering right and left, then covering the flat rear deck with the seam facing aft, then a piece of edge tape up the vertical fin.

    My other idea would be to try and cover both sides with one piece, and then complete it as described above:

    In my head I'm imagining sticking it to the curve section at first, and then pulling hard towards the top longerons and then the front and back edges. Possible or crazy? Is a razor back the only way out?
    Hi Alex,
    Mine is definitely not a great example of how it can be done, but here is what I did, & why. First, you’re spot-on about the difficulty and the razorback making it easier. My kit was done before Kitfox started making the fuselages with the welded on steel razorback tube. It included a piece of curved aluminum tubing that was to be bonded to the structure to modify & extend that front edge of the vertical fin. I modified that curve so that it was a little different than what it was supposed to be at that time, and what it is now on the current fuselages. I shortened it so that I could locate & weld on a mounting plate for my com antenna that is a little further back from the rear edge of the turtleback cover than on the current kits (which now include a mounting plate). I was thinking that I wanted a little more clearance from the antenna when loading/unloading the cargo bay (I had the hinged cover idea in my mind at the time also) So, I did it just like your first proposal, but I added a flat piece of aluminum across the top of the fuselage in that area to give me a good surface to make a fabric overlapping splice, since there was no cross tube where I wanted to do that. I could have done a much better job with the aluminum piece, and it shows & isn’t very attractive under the fabric. The whole job would be easier with the flatter curve of the original current design.
    John Evens
    Arvada, CO
    Kitfox SS7 N27JE
    EAA Lifetime
    Chap. 43 honorary Lifetime

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