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Re: First, Build a Shed
Carl, Yes the drawings are confusing and not correct. The backing plates on page 59 show all holes, but only one side is rivet holes, the other side is holes for the self-tapping screws you will use. Page 61 is not correct for the airfoiled tail. Use the cut pattern shown on page 63. Don't use the standard tail pattern; it will require way too much bending to get on and off. The pattern on page 63 shows two cuts at right angles to each other; the backing plate only goes on the vertical cut. The horizontal cut doesn't really need a backing plate to stay in position, although I suppose you could put one there if you wanted, but in my experience it is not needed. On the very rear where the access cover screws onto the fiberglass fairing, I highly recommend you reinforce the backside of the fairing with a strip of aluminum (just use Hysol to attach it). This will give those screws something more substantial to tap into and help avoid stripping them out during your frequent removal of these access covers every annual.
While I'm spouting off on suggestions, make sure you put a round inspection cover on the belly of the airplane right under the elevator rear idler arm. Every annual you need to inspect and lube the ball joints and a cover makes it easy-peasy. Wouldn't hurt to also put one under your rear AP servo maybe.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
I used little Tinnerman clip nuts around the perimeter of those panels - I believe they were included in the kit. I used some slightly different ones on the rear 4 holes. Then I used some "Tric-nuts" on the steel tabs that are welded to the fuselage. It would have been just as good to use the clip nuts there too. So, those little SS screws have a replaceable "nut" to screw into. I can post some pictures showing how everything went together for me if it would be helpful, Carl.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
Thanks for the quick answers and suggestions guys. Reinforcing the fiberglass is obviously a good idea and I wouldn't have thought of it until the holes weakened. And now I know the real name for those "clip nuts thingies".
Definitely need an inspection plate under the AP servo and I'll remember to put another under the idler arm. While I'm taking notes, what lube do you use on the ball joints?
Pictures would be great John.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
Almost everything in the Kitfox is lubed with LPS-1. That will work on the Hiem ball or rod ends (ball end thingies;)).
Another lube that I like even better is Triflow, we use in our shop. It is a Teflon based lube.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
I specifically recall assembly of the mixer calling for "bearing grease" on the pivot bolts. I can't imagine reapplying every annual. Are people not using bearing grease at these points?
Eddie
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Re: First, Build a Shed
Yes, bearing grease on the pivot bolts, and Tri-Flow on the rod ends. I do not regrease the pivot bolts every annual, just check them for free motion.
Like John I also used the "clip nuts" on the access panels. The manual tells you to use them along the top and front, but says to use self tap screws into the weld tabs on the bottom. I found that to be nearly impossible in the thick steel tabs, so I used the clip nuts there also and am glad I did.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
Glad to hear you guys did the tinnerman clips on purpose. I did it since I oversized the holes being inattentive during that procedure.
Eddie
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Re: First, Build a Shed
I drilled and tapped the lower tabs.
cheers
r
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Re: First, Build a Shed
For anyone who might stumble on this conversation while searching for information on the tail access plates, John posted detailed photos on his "John's Build" thread. This link will take you to the relevant page.
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/sho...3432#post63432
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Re: First, Build a Shed
Mounted the wings and flaperons to make the rigging adjustments before covering. The door alcove on one wall and a window bay on the opposite give just enough room to walk around the plane. Of course, the needed tool is always on the other side of the fuselage. The ubiquitous, "Little Red Shop Stool" gets lots of use sliding back and forth under a wing.
I'm glad I took this sidetrack to rig before covering. It's very easy to reach through the naked fuselage to adjust rods. The downside is the flaperon horns are only secured with clecos and there is some slop. The final adjustment of the connection rods will be made after the flaperons are painted and the horns riveted.
Didn't think to take a picture until the flaperons were removed.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
looking great Carl.
I don't understand why we would not be able to pull those flapperon horn rivets at this stage. The holes are drilled and it seems there is no different location that these horns can reside now. Fortunately the control rods are all pretty accessible through the cockpit after cover anyhow.
Eddie
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Re: First, Build a Shed
I agree, it does look great, Carl! I left my flaperon horn rivets out for a long time, knowing that it might be handy to help locate the slotted openings in the turtle deck by inserting some short tubes in the spar tubes of the flaperons that could be telescoped in or out while swinging the flaperons. I finally just went ahead & riveted them to be done with it.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
Although nowhere near this point in my build, I was thinking along the same lines as you Carl in doing the rigging prior to covering. Unlike you, I don't have the length in my shed to strap the wings on so I'll have to drag it outside to do it. Fortunately, you, Eddie, John, Jeff and others are far enough ahead of me so that I can learn about any pitfalls beforehand. I enjoy reading all your threads. Keep up the great work.
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D47
Not enough room in the shed?...No problem!
FWIW - a Local Kitfrox builder completed his bird in a small single car garage...I think a lot of builds take place in smaller places:)
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Re: First, Build a Shed
Regarding rigging before covering, I believe the build manual tells you to rig the wing sweep, dihedral, washout, jury struts and rudder cables before covering. If you are considering rigging the controls before covering, that really isn't necessary. All control rod end adjustments are easily accessible after covering, except for the elevator idler arm located in the tailcone. However even this is easily accessed if you put one of those round inspection covers right underneath it on the belly. You will want to do this anyway for future access during annual inspections/lubrication.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
I started to go ahead a rivet the control horn but something nagged from the manual so I double checked. The suggestion is to wait until after painting to rivet so the paint doesn't gum up the nylon bearings. I've become so accustom to seeing the clecos sticking out of the horn, maybe I should make tiny little, "Remove Before Flight" ribbons.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
Yep, I'll have to do what you did Dave. I have enough room outside the shed, although without the snow !. We dont see the white stuff here in Australia unless you head for the hills ... and even then ... and I think if you're keen enough, you'd do a build in a closet!
You're right Jim about the rigging, but like Carl, I like the idea of ease of access to everything with no covering. Having said that though, I'll do a double check again after covering. A bit of "measure twice, cut once" . Also good advice on the access hole under the rear elevator idler - thanks.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
OK, I'll admit. I will be the one to answer the question about whether you can rivet the horn in before the glass goes on. In a lapse of concentration, I went ahead and riveted the left flapperon horn before I read the manual again and noticed I should have waited. So, I have one side riveted and the Right side still clecoed. :o
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Re: First, Build a Shed
Just a few more items to complete before starting covering. Really looking forward to seeing airfoil surfaces rather than the internal bones and ribs.
I'm trying not to drive my self nuts figuring out mounting locations for two pieces of equipment - an Artex ELT 345 and a Garmin GTX-45R Remote Transponder.
There are several examples of other builders' installations with fabricated mounts secured to the frame with clamps. A big consideration is how easy it will be to service the devices down the road. While moving the ELT from place to place, it occurred to me just how simple it would be to mount both units on the inside floor of the cargo bay. Run bolts up from the bottom of the floor, secure with nyloc nuts, rest a fender washer on top, then the equipment mount and final nylocs to secure. A grounding cable would be required but I was planning on that anyway.
I don't envision carrying a lot of cargo so the room wouldn't be missed. This seems like such a simple solution. Am I missing something?
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Re: First, Build a Shed
That isn't a bad idea. Many certified planes have the ELT in the cargo area. The biggest concern I see would be the wiring harnesses and ELT switch; you need to make sure they won't get damaged when you have cargo. You could possibly make a cover or box and put the transponder and ELT inside to offer protection.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
Thanks for the response Phil. And covering with a box is a nice added touch.
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Many guys remove the baggage compartment and floor for every annual condition inspection. I don't personally do it myself because I have come up with ways to see the critical control rods and cables without doing so. Any electronics mounted inside the baggage area would make this annual removal a pain, especially the wiring harnesses and antenna cables that must pass thru the baggage wall. I wouldn't do it myself. There is plenty of room just outside the baggage area, either to the sides or to the rear. Just my thoughts.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
I would agree with Jim. And if you use the "standard" Kitfox cargo "sack", ready access to the side areas, and an ELT there, can be easy due to the Velcro attachment of the sack along the edges.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
Okay, okay, all excellent points about likely needing to remove the floor. And, even after cutting and sewing a slot in the bag for wiring, it's probably best to avoid disconnecting cables when not necessary. So it's back to constructing an aluminum frame with clamps to mount to the frame tubing.
As usual, the forum is a great resource for asking questions and getting quick responses.
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Where you been Carl? I was considering calling to see what you've been up to? Too much Yard work?
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Re: First, Build a Shed
It's been a long, cool Spring and my wife had several projects in mind. I got a little carried away on a couple of them, forgetting how little fun it is to move yard after yard of organic topsoil in a wheelbarrow. If I could bring myself to sell the pickup I'd have an excuse to hire people to do this sort of work.
The Kitfox has been getting some attention but it's mainly along the lines of small jobs caught here and there.
A SteinAir box arrived today with an assortment of boxes making up a G3X system - another complete puzzle to build. And I have unopened boxes from Oratex over in one corner. It feels like I've been more of a receiving clerk than a kit builder. Next steps are to install the ELT and remote transponder, then start playing with Oratex.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
I put my Dynon remote xponder on one of the triangular shelves I installed behind the instr. panel.
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Playing with Oratex can be really rewarding. I think you will appreciate the small steps towards being done with a part. Nearly finished a wing this week. Only leading edge tapes and end tapes remain. I have yet to determine if I have to order more tape. I will order 6" tapes if I have already enough 2" tape to cover the second wing to this stage. If I need addtl 2" tapes then I will just use it and the 4" to finish the leading edge.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
The Garmin GTX 45R Remote Transponder comes with a very nice, tight fitting, rack mount case. Once the case is mounted, the transponder unit slides neatly in and out with a cam locking mechanism. A photo from JohnB showed the transponder neatly mounted behind the pilot's seat but, once I started looking, the current version of the case only has mounting holes along the thin sides for horizontal mounting. Since the transponder fits so snugly, it's not just a simple matter of drilling new holes. There have to be dimples for the countersink bolts to "hide" in.
The installation manual mentions a vertical mount case as an option and, with fingers crossed, I gave SteinAir a call hoping for a case swap. Wonderful company to work with and "Chris" understood the situation immediately. In fact, he had previously investigated the vertical case for another customer. Garmin does offer the case, certified for helicopters, and selling for the princely sum of $1,500. I put the comma in so you wouldn't think I miss-typed $15. Chris offered the obvious solution of making L's to create mount. A few hours of cutting, belt sanding and drilling and the case is mounted. I'm amazed how much time can be spent fiddling with something like this. But I'm pleased with the results.
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I'm trying not to be too intimidated by Eddie's covering job on the wing. Really looking forward to that part of the project.
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A few hours of cutting, belt sanding and drilling and the case is mounted. I'm amazed how much time can be spent fiddling with something like this. But I'm pleased with the results.
Carl, Know what you mean. Designing, making stuff, fitting up, adjusting and installing takes time. Imagine if we all had to start from just basic plans and no kit !. Those who came before and built from plans or modified existing designs have my utmost respect.
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A big box of Garmin G3X toys recently arrived from SteinAir. Uncounted hours were spent reading the online Garmin manuals to learn mounting and wiring details. It would be very helpful if the "Homebuilders' Skunk Works" department of Garmin to wrote a simplified manual. But I'm sure the corporate lawyers have a lot to say about that. Happily there are very helpful forum builders who were a great help on getting started with the wiring design.
One of the recent small projects was installing the Kitfox Factory trim position sensor. This involves mounting and removing the horizontal stabilizer a couple of times while making adjustments. The rear bolt, that the stabilizer pivots on, has always been difficult to install. There are access holes in the adjacent ribs but it's always taken a drift pin to install and remove this bolt and I end up using a second drift pen not for alignment but as a punch. It always nagged that this was going to be a very difficult task during final assembly of a covered plane. It's embarrassing to admit how long it took for it to finally dawn on me that since the bolt slid easily in and out of the bushing and mounting post without the elevator, it was the elevator that wasn't lining up correctly. A close look showed the rear of the mounting post was too thick. A couple of minutes with a Dremel sanding drum and the elevator is a piece of cake to mount.
Any recommendations for a touch up paint for small places where the powder coat has been removed? Does an automotive touch up paint last?
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Re: First, Build a Shed
It's finally "Oratex Time". With the help of a PVC tube, wing stands turned into a fabric dispenser. Mom was a home economics major and taught her son how to sew more than buttons. That led to an interest in quilting so I just happen to have a cutting mat, rolling cutter and long rulers on hand. This part of the plane should be fun. The magnetometer and pitot mount aren't installed yet but I'm ready to play with fabric.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
H Carl,
Good progress and I enjoy your posts. Yes, the covering is a fun part - will be even more so with your skills!
There was a small pot of touch up 'paint' included in my kit for the powder coating - not in yours? I am not sure how special it is but it appeared to come form the powder coat mob and made just for this task - maybe Kitfox has some?
chers
ross
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Re: First, Build a Shed
Carl, I used the Polyfiber epoxy primer as touch up paint where powder coat was removed, and also for a protective primer on many aluminum parts and spars.
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Carl,
You are right about the amount of the time it takes to figure out the installation and wiring of a G3X system. Once I got it figured out I really enjoyed the fabrication of the harnesses, etc. One of these days I need to add the Garmin WAAS GPS to complete the ADSB out, I already have the GTX23ES transponder and GDL89R (ADSB in). You will really like the G3X once you start flying.
How challenging do you think it would be to install the trim potentiometer on a completed plane? I ran the wiring, so it would just require the installation and rigging in the tail.
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The Trim Indicator Kit comes with two brackets, a potentiometer, and an assortment of machine screws, nuts, etc. The instructions have you bond one bracket to the fuselage for mounting the pot. The second bracket is bonded to the elevator and serves as a "finger" to push the pot button in and out. My 2016 fuselage came with a "pot support" bracket already installed and drilled. For reference, there is 1.5" distance between this bracket and the elevator support.
I would think you could do the job without having to remove the elevator. You could pre-drill the pot support bracket so the pot is held high against the fuselage tube as in the the picture. On an unfinished plane, the elevator has to be mounted to find the correct position for the finger bracket so you are ahead of the game there. The difficulty might be figuring out how to clamp the brackets while the Hysol cures. After the Hysol is set, the finger can be gently bent so the pot button ranges from fully pressed to open as the elevator moves. The pot comes with a foot of shielded 3-strand, maybe 22 ga. wire - and a neatly printed tape label saying which color does what.
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Re: First, Build a Shed
Thanks Carl, that doesn't look to bad. My plane doesn't have the bracket, so it will require structural adhesive to install the tab and brackets.
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Carl, I had exactly the same problem with fitting up the tailplane. Removal of material required on the fuselage mounted fitting. But in my kit, I have a small bottle of white acrylic touchup paint for this exact type of problem. Maybe check your kit. It should be there and you received your kit only 6 months or so before mine.