How can i keep my kitfox from stalling & spinning in too ????

Im with you jt!! practice practice practice, the first time I did a spin ( with a qualified instructor) the cessna white with blue trim almost needed a redo,and now the only time I get nervous is when I haven't don a stall/spin recovery in the plane I'm in at the time,
As for washout compairisons "601 versus kitfox" I don't believe the 601 has any washout incorperated in the wing, its dehydral is what makes its stall characteristics, where the kitfox has allot flatter dehydral so the wash out is incorperated, although some would argue hershey bar wings don't need washout at all

Thanks for all the advice guys.
There is a champ near here, and they do offer aerobatic training, so looks like I will be doing some stalls soon. I am still looking into stall proofing the plane, so to speak, or at least optimizing the stall recovery to allow a quick recovery with minimal loss of altitude.

Roger

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rogerh12

Thanks for all the advice guys.
There is a champ near here, and they do offer aerobatic training, so looks like I will be doing some stalls soon. I am still looking into stall proofing the plane, so to speak, or at least optimizing the stall recovery to allow a quick recovery with minimal loss of altitude.

Roger

---

Just wondering, how many hours total do you have and how many hours in a KF ?? I can stall the avid or kitfox and recover with less than 50' lost. You REALLY have to do something stupid to stall it and spin the dang thing. These planes were originaly designed with the idea that a guy could buy the kit, build it, then learn to fly in his own plane. Great pains were taken to make them a very safe plane to fly. Without having spent any (or very much) time in one, why the heck would you want to monkey with the design and change something you really know nothing about???

Most guys I know are trying to figure out how to get the washout OUT of the wing for better cruise and STOL than to monkey around and put MORE in it. The early models had LOTS of washout, and over time, testing has proven that you dont need all that and ALOT of it has been taken out on subsequent models.

so, I guess the take away from all this should be, get out and fly the plane and learn to fly it, instead of wasting a butt load of time and engergy trying to make it idiot proof.. We all know that when you try to make something idiot proof... they just build a better idiot!

I know we all think, just take a stall training course. Ya might be ok. I remember on my second flight up when training. The instructor told me to put full power, point straight up, I did. I went into a stall and then a spin, I was having a ball, I recovered real quick, c172. My next ground class one guy was totally picked, he said his instructor(mine) put him into a spin, scared the crum out of him, he fired him. I came back and said, ya he did that to me also, but it was fun, I did 3 more on that flight.

Now lets look at the big picture here. When you stall and spin you need more than 1000ft to recover. What does that mean. Well when are you at risk of stalling and spining, NOT at 5k feet let me tell you. So when?

On base to final and on your cross wind. So what elevation are you at for this. Well if you do a short pattern like me, both of those are usually at 300agl. Wow that's way below the 1000 recovery.

If you do the standard by the book pattern, your going to be at about 600agl on both. Oh OH , your still below the 1000ft. So doing stall recovery is NOT going to do anything for you. You want to avoid a stall.
Which I believe is what the thread started out asking.

My advice, go get some more training.
Put on VG's
Maintain 60mph. In the fox that will pretty much keep you out of trouble.
again, if you have any troubles, go up and do stalls at altitude and practice practice practice what throws YOUR airplane into a stall. If you have a courdinated airplane, you will not go into a spin. Centered ball, by the way.

Know also what the fox feels like to be with too much angle of attack. that's the angle just before it stalls, know how that feels and looks like, usually you can't see out over the nose. when you see or feel this, you better be pushing the stick forward.

these things are called flying by the seat of your pants. learn that and you won't run into trouble when the engine fails or you just plain get lazy on your approach to land or take off.

all these things are fun to explore. it just takes time and practice.

This is the point of my efforts to try to "idiot proof" my kitfox. When you land like this at the airport after a power failure, it's not due to the power failure, it's due to a stall and spin. (and I doubt the spin is due to an idiot at the stick either).

Training is important, but I guess I am really looking for a hardware fix (maybe less up elevator?) just in case I forget my training too. Roger

Ahh.. hmmm.. gotta dissagree with you on this one too. Planes dont just fly along straight and level at a happy cruise then for no reason at all enter a spin. Someone has to PUT THEM INTO THE SPIN.

i was told quote, by an instructor, a very wise man. " a spin is not going to happen if you have the plane coordinated, or the ball in the center. go up to altitude and try it. if the ball is in the center it WILL drop straight. even if you have a turn and ball center, it will drop out straight no spin. The pilot is the one that dictates what that plane is going to do.

Roger,..from what you just wrote it leads me to believe you think you can make it to the runway in a power off situation,..sometimes you can,..but above all you must first "fly" the airplane,..keep your speed in the green so you have good control of the airplane,..remember the 30 degree rule ,..what you see in front of you at 30 degree's down,..left,..right is where you have the best chance of landing with control,..even if it is laying the wings in the tree tops,..
If you ask me,..panic is the number 1 problem with low time pilots,..in a panic state of mind ,..you cant think straight,.. the way to over come it ,..is before it happens ..practice practice practice
if you dont know to keep your wings level or ball centered or to keep your speed in the green,..chances are you are going to stall and spin no matter what is done to the airplane to prevent it

I really disagree with you on this, when the fan quits, first thing is to get ahold of yourself. I've had 5 different things happen to me, first thing is get ahold of your head, I freeze my arm and hold stick for 1,2, seconds. this puts you back in charge, if speed is going down, you push forward stick, I don't give a who about altitude at this point, speed is an utmost importance. after that you land the plane.

Just because the fan quits doesn't mean you're go into a spin. your way off on that one, it's the failure to control the situation. yes I've had two engine outs, still running but 20%, one in the kitfox and the other in the rv. both were under 300ft. I landed back on the runway with plenty of runway and speed left over for a beautiful landing. So get a spin out of your head, it's not going to happen unless YOU allow it.

sorry slyfox ,..seems we were writing at the same time ,..just goes to show you we practice ha ha