New Pilot Intro and 1st Plane Decisions

Hi all,

Here to ask the age-old question, but curious how it may apply to my particular situation (not that it may be that particularly unique). I got my PPL in Oct 2014, with my training roughly split between flying a couple different 150’s and 172’s. I only flew for a couple months after that, not accumulating very many hours as I was still just renting, and at $100+/hr I felt like that restricted me to just flying around for an hour or so here and there (not that flying was any less intriguing, my love for aviation has been lifelong, I just felt like my money was not being well spent in terms of Cost:Practicality ratio). I was fairly new in my career and my financial priority was zoned in on purchasing a home before spending money to buy my own plane.

Fast forward 4 years later and I am now a homeowner and married with no kids. I work a rotating shift that gives me a full 7 days off every 4 weeks plus a couple 3-day breaks in between. I am at a point financially to make a move on pursuing aviation again, but not sure what route I should go and hoping I can learn particularly from those who may be well rounded in owning a few different types of aircraft through the years. Wanting to know why you made the choice you made for first airplane, if/why/when you traded up or down to something else and things you wish you would have done differently looking back on the past.

At this point I’m between two options:

1) Buy a kit and build. Own my forever plane (low, slow, bush-plane style) right out of the gate. Or at least what my personal interests in aviation think I want as a forever plane. Being from NC, Just Aircraft out of SC is a short drive away and I like the idea of local support. Would probably end up with a Highlander if I purchased from them. Obviously the other option in this category is a Kitfox STi build which I personally like more when comparing the 2 on paper. Kitfox is across the country, but what seems to be a larger support community makes up for that somewhat. Would probably just have to find a local owner of each and see/fly them both to make a final decision. I feel pretty confident I would see the build through to the end.

2) Buy a 150, 172, or other comparable plane. $20k-$30k range. Build time, enjoy it, and reconsider a build or something else down the road. Not that building a brand new plane necessarily means that surprise costs cant arise, but some folks are quick to tell horror stories of how owning an old plane is just a constant barrage of outrageous expenses in which case I would rather just make a larger upfront investment to build something new.

Sorry for what feels like was probably a lengthy read, but I feel like giving as much detail as possible about my scenario is the way to get the best opinions from you all. Thanks for any advice!!!

Hello Shane and welcome.
You don't ask what someone wears on there feet before you shop for shoes right? Chose your poison, then maybe ask around to learn how expensive it is to operate. A Kitfox will be far less expensive. I lived your scenario down to the married part by the time I bought my first Kit, an RV4. Children arrived by the time I finished the tail feathers. No more plane building. Fast forward 13 years. Although I still have the RV4 tail and wings I went with a Kitfox because my taste in shoes changed to hiking boots. If the low and slow type flying is what your seeking then you have arrived at two fine airplanes. You won't need to live anywhere near Caldwell Idaho to get the Kitfox built. Australia isn't exactly anywhere near it and if your familiar with our community here, you will see Kitfox is all over the globe. This Forum will nearly meet every need you will come across. The manual leaves little to be desired. It will tell you what you need to do and the forum friends will advise you how they achieved the goal. The first one that comes to mind is how people got the elevator mounts reamed and the bearings pressed in without the loctite setting up before they are in. Look at the manual yourself, right now. It is available online. See the Kitfox Aircraft link, top left of this site. Go ahead and find a Kitfox to try on. You will understand why they say "if you go to Caldwell to see the Kitfox and fly it, bring your check book".
Welcome to the forum, you will get plenty more responses Im sure.

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Originally Posted by efwd

...Look at the manual yourself, right now. It is available online. See the Kitfox Aircraft link, top left of this site...

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Working on that. I have skimmed over the online version. The viewing tool on the website is kind of a pain, especially on a mobile browser. I submitted a request via the Kitfox website to see about getting a PDF version I can print out and read through a little easier. Waiting to hear back.

Hey Shane. If I could suggest a third option, a nice Model 4/1200/912ul could be bought in the price range that you mentioned. Plus the maintenance cost would be much less than an older certified plane. My A&P charged me $150 for my last annual. (I'm the builder but I was lazy and didn't do the work to get signed off to do my own annuals) Being experimental I can do all my own work, then he gives it a thorough inspection, points out any problem that I fix and signs me off. The Model 4 with the 80 hp 912 performs at least the equal to a 100 hp 912 in the later models at less than half the cost. I recently took a friend for a ride who weighs 230+. I'm 185+ and with pretty close to full gas tanks I'm pretty sure I was past max gross. I was a little concerned it might be a little sluggish but not so. Take off was still impressive and initial climb out was better than 700 fpm. A mile or so out we were climbing better than 1100 fpm at 70mph. It will cruise easily at 105+ at 5100 rpm with 22 inch tires. I'm at KTTA in Lee County so I'm close by if you would like to check mine out and go for a ride. James Thomas

I know Debbie told me last week they were out of print versions and were waiting on a new order to be received... Don't know they will release a PDF...

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Originally Posted by ShaneNC

Hi all,

...but some folks are quick to tell horror stories of how owning an old plane is just a constant barrage of outrageous expenses in which case I would rather just make a larger upfront investment to build something new.

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I'm in a club that owns a Cardinal, and have many horror stories to tell of outrageous expenses. Owning a certified plane is expensive. The acquisition cost should be a secondary consideration. It only takes a few broken bits to double your $20-$30k purchase price. A "cheap" radio is $3k. Instruments are all in the multiple hundreds of dollars, and shop rates (at least in my area) are $80/hr. Our annual inspection is $1400 before fixing anything. It cost us $6k to get out of annual the first year we had the plane, as we really shook it down with a lot of flying and found all the stuff that was at the end of its life.

If I could go back in time, I'd advocate for building the club around a used experimental instead. We wanted 4 seats. 95% of the time the airplane is in the air, those seats are unoccupied.

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Originally Posted by jrthomas

Hey Shane. If I could suggest a third option, a nice Model 4/1200/912ul could be bought in the price range that you mentioned. Plus the maintenance cost would be much less than an older certified plane...

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James,

Thank you for the offer, that would be awesome. I’m about a 15 minute drive from BQ1, I’d be glad to buy you lunch there for your troubles if you’re interested in flying this way. Or I could come to you, whatever is easiest for you. PM me your contact info sometime. It will probably be after the new year before I can do much though between work and traveling back and forth to visit family.

Another thought is maybe an earlier Kitfox or Avid Flyer. Sometimes you can find them in the $15,000 range. That's a long way from the $75,000 price tag that was mentioned for building a Kitfox 7 with a 912. And if you really want that 7, the cheaper plane will probably still be worth what you paid for it once the 7 is built and you can have a lot of fun flying in the meantime. JImChuk

Shane,


Just a few thoughts to throw into the mix. On the "buy used certificated" vs "build new experimental" there are some things to consider. I did consider a third option - rebuild a certificated tube and fabric aircraft.


Buy a new certificated aircraft? Not only is the price laughable but it is so far beyond what an average person can do it is a sick joke.



1) My last 4 rental experiences prior to building our Kitfox all ended with mechanical kerfuffles - all between picking up the keys and the run-up pad. It occurred to me that airplanes with a gazillion hours on them with mechanics trying to keep up with whatever some renters can dish out and walk away from is not my deal.


2) I also spent some time working with an A & P on several airplanes. I was aghast at the frequency corrosion was encountered, particularly in old all aluminum certificated airplanes. There is not much you can do with an aluminum airplane with spar or other serious structural corrosion discovered after one of those is purchased. I recall seeing little donut shaped rings around wing rivets on one aircraft where the corrosion between the skin and ribs had pushed up. I don't care how neat the paint looks - paint doesn't make it fly.



3) Old Tube and fabric airplanes can be rebuilt to better than new due to the nature of that technology - but it is still a certificated airplane - but not a bad option.


4) Experimental? A person can end up with a new airplane at a cost that is approachable by many. Also the Repairman's certificate and the assurance that a person can maintain it to their standards rather than not knowing if it is something you would not want to trust your life to.


My personal opinion is that experimentals is where we will continue to see airplanes added to the fleet that average folks can fly while not entirely destroying the kid's inheritance.

I own a model 4 1200. Though I got mine from my grandfather I have to say it's been a absolute joy to own.

If buying a kitfox I would not get anything older than the model 4 1200. There was a lot of upgrades that were implemented with the 4 and later that are pretty nice and make them great flying machines.

The operating costs are almost 0 ($15 an hour gas), plus I do all the maintenance my self. So far I have had to redo the brakes, fuel lines, tires, and install an oil cooler. Did it all my self paying for nothing more than the parts cost. This is HUGE in aviation. Plus you won't have to wait for a shop to finish it. If you want it done order the parts and get it fixed up. Beyond that getting to understand your aircraft is a major plus.

Key is to have a trusted A&P to will at least give it a glance to make sure you have not attached the wing backwards.

I was once told by a FEDEX 777 captain when talking with him about planes to fly. I wanted a Comanche 260, high performance, retracts, the works...

He looked at me and said "What you need is something slow and cheap" then pointed at my grandfathers kitfox 4.