engine choice

ok, so i have run the gammut of research on all of the engines and have decided that the 912uls with an efi package is probably the way to go. without going into all the ins and outs with compare/contrast, let's just say that reliability and proven performance has led me to this point. quite simply, the 912 can take a substantial beating in many types of airframes. for the kitfox, i believe it is head and shoulders above the likes of viking/honda (NOT an aircraft engine!) for STOL aircraft. sure, other engines will work a treat, such as the O-200 and 235, but rotax has the proven history / performance for higher revving engines to do what STOLs are supposed to do, namely, get off the ground quickly. i just want to find a good used 200 to 300 hour 912uls to add an efi package to.

Wise decision! You won't be sorry. I am running a 912ULS with Edge EFI. It runs like a modern EFI engine. Good luck on your engine search. May check with Jason at Badasspowersports. He is the N American rep for edgeperformance.no

Scott

Don’t forget about the Rotec..... looks great, sounds great, and a pleasure to fly behind.....

I wouldn't get too hung up on engine hours.Even a well cared for 1000 hr engine at the right price is only half life and unless you are doing 200 +hrs that's going to be a good run for your money.

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Originally Posted by jmcqueen9731

ok, so i have run the gammut of research on all of the engines and have decided that the 912uls with an efi package is probably the way to go. without going into all the ins and outs with compare/contrast, let's just say that reliability and proven performance has led me to this point. quite simply, the 912 can take a substantial beating in many types of airframes. for the kitfox, i believe it is head and shoulders above the likes of viking/honda (NOT an aircraft engine!) for STOL aircraft. sure, other engines will work a treat, such as the O-200 and 235, but rotax has the proven history / performance for higher revving engines to do what STOLs are supposed to do, namely, get off the ground quickly. i just want to find a good used 200 to 300 hour 912uls to add an efi package to.

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From what I have read, you are making a good choice for this AC, with the 912 platform being the past of least resistance. That Viking engine seems really attractive though. 130hp compared to 100. 130mph cruise compared to 105, 600lbs of thrust compared to 420.

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Originally Posted by Flienlow

From what I have read, you are making a good choice for this AC, with the 912 platform being the past of least resistance. That Viking engine seems really attractive though. 130hp compared to 100. 130mph cruise compared to 105, 600lbs of thrust compared to 420.

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Scott Noble cruises much faster than 105. I think he’s in the 125 range. I’m sure he will chime in. That’s with tundra tires.

That 125 mph would be at about 90% power at sea level on a standard day.

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Originally Posted by Flienlow

From what I have read, you are making a good choice for this AC, with the 912 platform being the past of least resistance. That Viking engine seems really attractive though. 130hp compared to 100. 130mph cruise compared to 105, 600lbs of thrust compared to 420.

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The HP of the viking seems attractive, but at the end of the day, it's still an auto engine. I know that there are a lot of guys flying car engines, but I ain't ever gonna be one of them. That, and I have read some pretty atrocious things about the way viking deals with customers. Heck, I even watched Eggenballer pitch his wares on a YT video. Not impressed.

Your response is not without Merit for sure. I look at this a bit different though
(which is not backed by a shred of personal experience or expertise.)

1. The Japanese are a very cleaver lot at building small engines. -Remember its Honda Motor Co. for a reason.
2. Both enginesrequire a PSRU.
3. Both are water cooled.

Would I buy a viking? -jury is still out for me, but i do feel its worthy of consideration.

How does one find a 200 ish hour Rotax? I have been on Barnstormers, Trade a Plane... and can rarely find a Rotax at all. I saw a 914 and a couple 912’s last time I looked. The 914 was tempting (actually not really. I don’t have the money for any engine right now), but at $9400 is something lurking that I don’t know about or is that the going price.

I am trying to watch to see what comes up and what the price is, so when I am ready to buy I have an idea of what a reasonable price might be.

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Originally Posted by Flyboy66

How does one find a 200 ish hour Rotax? I have been on Barnstormers, Trade a Plane... and can rarely find a Rotax at all. I saw a 914 and a couple 912’s last time I looked. The 914 was tempting (actually not really. I don’t have the money for any engine right now), but at $9400 is something lurking that I don’t know about or is that the going price.

I am trying to watch to see what comes up and what the price is, so when I am ready to buy I have an idea of what a reasonable price might be.

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There is usually some real good reason or "issue" that a 200 hr Rotax, just out of warranty, would be for sale. They say Rotax's usually make TBO and then some with regular maintenance.
The only good reason I can think of, why one would be for sale, would be to upgrade to a larger engine .
I would only look at one that has a good log, and if repaired, done by a known quality Rotax center.
I doubt anyone is going to sell their 200 hr engine if it is running well and fitting their needs.

Where do I look? In addition to Barnstormers, Trade a Plane....

Rotax are widely used in many S-LSA aircraft. If an aircraft is damaged or totaled but the engine is serviceable then it may appear on the market. They are desireable engines so when found, quick action may be needed to aquire a nice one. Very good luck to you in your search.

Talk to people like Hal Stockman, at Zipper engine Kits.

Or Ronnie Smith at South Mississippi Light Aircraft.

These are two very good resources for 912 parts and complete engines.

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Originally Posted by jmcqueen9731

ok, so i have run the gammut of research on all of the engines and have decided that the 912uls with an efi package is probably the way to go. without going into all the ins and outs with compare/contrast, let's just say that reliability and proven performance has led me to this point. quite simply, the 912 can take a substantial beating in many types of airframes. for the kitfox, i believe it is head and shoulders above the likes of viking/honda (NOT an aircraft engine!) for STOL aircraft. sure, other engines will work a treat, such as the O-200 and 235, but rotax has the proven history / performance for higher revving engines to do what STOLs are supposed to do, namely, get off the ground quickly. i just want to find a good used 200 to 300 hour 912uls to add an efi package to.

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Go team Yamaha

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Originally Posted by maxpayne

Go team Yamaha

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Definitely an intriguing option. However, you will need to build your own engine mount, work with a third party re-drive system, build/extensively modify a wire harness to make the engine run plus the multitude of other things that an unsupported engine system requires.

IMO, for the true experimenter, this is a far more intriguing option than the auto-conversions.

Are you in any hurry to find an engine? I am thinking of ordering one of the Edge motors and taking the 912 off my plane. It is an 80 HP with the Extra-Performance 95 HP pistons. Carbs were just rebuilt, the gearbox sent off to Ronnie Smith in Mississippi for thorough check out and re-shimming. I will be selling it after I get a new engine shipped in and ready to install. It has right at 200 hrs. TT +/- but will get an exact time on it when I remove it. I'm 1500 miles from the plane right now so can't give an exact TT.

Regarding the question of where to find used Rotax engines; there are aviation equivalent type businesses to auto wrecking yards.

There are several around the country; and, one example is located in MN but does national distribution.

http://www.wentworthaircraft.com/

Aside from normal certificated aircraft and parts, they have a collection of experimental and light sport aircraft & parts including engines.

It would not be unreasonable to think they might have some 912's

Again, there are other yards of this type around the country, but this is one a person could check with to see what they have.

still trying

Yamaha.140 hp

Slowly but surly.

You have quite the project there. Looks pretty Kool! I hope you have plans for a muffler of some type at the end of that header, or she's gonna sing pretty loud!

Some awfully fancy suspension, too... :cool:

finally had some time to jump back in. as for Honda engines, no doubt they are very highly engineered... with the tolerancing so tight that some of them run 0W and 5W oil, with a robust injection system. many of these engines run 300k miles in cars with no problems if regularly maintained.

so.... what are the differences between a true aircraft piston engine and an auto engine? i found this little gem of an article from 2008 that you all might want to check out:

http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/arti.../#.Wm3gVJM-fUI

from a demand standpoint, aircraft engines are designed to be a much different animal for some very specific reasons. will the auto engines probably do the job just fine? absolutely. from a longevity standpoint, i am not so sure. i will let the aircraft engine engineers debate the pro's and con's.

i actually work for Honda manufacturing here in Ohio, and would love to have the confidence to be able to fly a Honda engine at 65 to 80% of its duty day in and day out, but would have to guess that the TBO equivalent of an auto engine would have to fall somewhere in the 500 to 1,000 range, maybe lower or higher. and, of the auto engines being flown, i would say that they (Honda) would be top of the heap, HOWEVER.... they are simply not aircraft engines. they are not designed to be ran balls out each and every time they are run.

what would be an interesting experiment would be for lycoming or continental (or rotax for that matter), actually take a 1.5L fit engine and determine what the TBO would be, or even with the modifications which viking does to their engines. i would guess that the results would surprise most of us.

i just don't know guys (and gals). it just seems to me that if safety is the top priority, in good conscience, i just can't bring myself to believe than an auto engine is the way to go.

Well said. My feelings exactly.

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Originally Posted by WWhunter

Are you in any hurry to find an engine? I am thinking of ordering one of the Edge motors and taking the 912 off my plane. It is an 80 HP with the Extra-Performance 95 HP pistons. Carbs were just rebuilt, the gearbox sent off to Ronnie Smith in Mississippi for thorough check out and re-shimming. I will be selling it after I get a new engine shipped in and ready to install. It has right at 200 hrs. TT +/- but will get an exact time on it when I remove it. I'm 1500 miles from the plane right now so can't give an exact TT.

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No hurry at all. I am trying to see what is out there. (doesn’t appear to be much anyone except Zipper and Wentworth). Just trying to learn as much as I can so I will be a more informed shopper when I want an engine.