I need to buy some Hysol. I want what is used to glue the ribs on the spars which I believe is 9460. Aircraft spruce doesn't seem to have it but they do have 9430. Is that what people are using? Anybody have any words of wisdom?
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I need to buy some Hysol. I want what is used to glue the ribs on the spars which I believe is 9460. Aircraft spruce doesn't seem to have it but they do have 9430. Is that what people are using? Anybody have any words of wisdom?
When I ran out of the big can of Hysol I spent a little more and bought the double barrel syringes with the gun and mixing tips. So nice to use and you end up only wasting the qty of hysol that remains in the tip. Purchase twice as much as you think you need. You will use it more than you imagine.
Eddie
I bet those mixing tips are awesome. I think it costs like 5 times as much per unit volume, but for some jobs, it would be nice to have. If you want more 9460 in quart cans, I recommend this place:
http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/index....article&id=196
It looks like the 9430 is much less viscous (it is more “runny”). It also has a more complicated mixing ratio (3.78:1) than 9460, which is 1:1. Material compatibility is listed for steel only. I would definitely stick with what the designers specified. You can buy 9460 from several online sources. R.S. Hughes is one good source. Kitfox carries it of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebird19kf
Thanks, thats what I needed to know
I have been using Hysol 9430 for years. When I built the wings of the first Model IV back in the mid 90's we then used a 3M product that was stiff enough to provide the desired fillet at the joints. For typical adhesive use, for some reason, I have always felt a thinner structural adhesive would be easier to work with.
Example, I have used it to repair minor tears or punctures in the fabric. A small fabric patch glued to the inner side of the torn fabric then held in place with two thin aluminum sheets (covered with clear packing tape) and secured by magnets. The result is a strong repair with only the edges of the tear evident on the outer surface.
The years part is most evident in a joke I tried to pull at the time we were having a group over to our home for a social. Ed was a collector and the thought of gluing a classic quarter coin to the porch of our home to attract his attention came to mind. Using the 9430 the deed was done. This was over ten years ago and this photo was taken this morning. A southerly exposure means summer full sun temps exceeding well over 100 degrees and winter freezes. Probably several hundred visitors have tried to pick it up in that time.
Attachment 15095
For mixing, I cheat a bit and use a ratio of 4:1 and it is easily done with an Oz. scale with .001 Oz. accuracy - available for under $25. I do cheat a little more on the ratio, though as I will add the resin first, then using a syringe will stop a bit short of exactly 4:1 while adding the hardener.
Attachment 15096
The following is from a data sheet copied from a supplier.
The tough, flexible nature of this adhesive makes it useful for bonding
dissimilar substrates and for assemblies requiring bondline
thickness up to one-tenth inch.
The coin trick is funny, Lowell. I've seen it done in public places before also.
I didn't mean to imply that the 9430 was unsafe... in fact it has a little higher strength than the 9460 and similar other properties. The 9460 just seems like a better choice for the rib fillets and other things like that. Any time you can get away from using a filler to stiffen the mix is good, in my opinion, although I believe that some types of filler (like flox or West System 403 Microfibers) can possibly increase the strength of the bond a little. The 3M 2216 A/B, that is probably what you referred to that you used for ribs/fillets, is a great adhesive, but more expensive than the Hysol 9460. My main objective in commenting on this thread was to discourage builders from making substitutions of a critical component like a structural adhesive, in building an airplane, unless they really understand all of the possible issues with that, and are certain the substitute is as good or better for the intended purpose. There are a lot of properties and potential issues that may not be completely known or understood by the average builder. I'm sure you know all of this at least as well as I do, but some builders may not.
I agree wholeheartedly on the application of the 9460 for the rib construction. I wouldn't modify the thinner 9430 with additives either to assemble a wing or other structure where a fillet is desired. I was thinking more in the routine use of adhesives. I am working on a project now using an epoxy that is referred to as Super Hard. It is the exact oposited of an adhesive. It will chip away from flexing metal or crack if bent too far. I use it because it sands a bit easier with less clogging of the sandpaper. I guess the point is that one size doesn't necessarily fit all.
A quick anecdote in support of what John is saying: in another life, we varied the amount of catalyst in a two part epoxy mix some years ago. We did three mixes, one according to the instructions, the second we put in less catalyst and the third more. The correct mix (number 1) performed as expected, number 2 was stronger but more brittle and number 3 extended like cheese when we pulled it. The lesson for me: don't mess with stuff you don't fully understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrevens