wind limits

I know this might be a questionable topic, but what is everyones wind limits??

Experience will depend on this but just curious.

Patrick
series 6
phase 1 testing

I've landed and then taken off in 20 gusting 25 right front quartering crosswinds. Didn't like it much. I wouldn't do it again if I didn't think I had to.

I routinely get this question from PPL students for airplanes that do not list maximum crosswinds in the POH or Owner’s Manual. So let’s look at the theoretical limits.

For taxi the practical limit is no more than stall speed or the airplane will fly when pointed into the wind. There is also a danger the aircraft will flip during taxi when not pointed directly into the wind and velocity is greater than stall. To be safe I would not push it with anything more than 50% of stall.

For takeoff the practical limit is a headwind no more than climb speed or the airplane will fly backwards in climb. It’s flyable but you will need to use a higher cruise climb speed. The real problem is getting from the parking area to the runway.

For cruise the maximum wind velocity when flying with any headwind component can be no more than cruise speed or you will go backwards. For tailwinds… enjoy the ride!

For landing the practical limit is a headwind no more than 50% of stall,.and crosswind no more than 25% of stall.


All of the above assume you are skilled in crosswind takeoffs and landings.

Once upon a time (1970) my friend Bob and I were ferrying a couple of airplanes from Needles, California, to San Diego (Gillespie Field) The winds began to increase and were too strong to attempt crossing the mountains so we decided to land and wait it out at Borrego Springs. I was in a Cherokee and, Bob was in a Citabria. The surface wind was about 30 knots direct cross. I landed first and was just about over the limit of control in the 3 legged milk stool with a very wild landing. I did not envy Bob’s predicament.

I watched in amazement as Bob angled toward the airport with about a 30 degree crab on the tail dragger. He kept drifting downwind and was clearly not lined up with the pavement. At about 100 feet Bob banked and turned the Citabria directly into the wind. He touched down in the run up area and rolled out on the runway. This gave him about 250 feet of pavement with a 30 knot direct headwind. No problem. If he overran the runway he would simply roll into the dirt at a very low speed.

The toughest part of the landing was getting the airplane to the parking area and tied down.

The wind that day was clearly over my limit but Bob, showed me how to land a conventional gear airplane with an unconventional approach during high wind conditions.

My suggestion to anyone is to become proficient in windy conditions. On those days when you think the wind is high. Grab an instructor and get some real experience before you have to do it in unexpected conditions.

John Pitkin
Greenville, Texas

Good topic. John's comment has a lot or wisdom and practical information in it. My take on the original question is a lot like Steve's. When at home and deciding whether to fly that day or not, the limits are way down there unless I am in a training or practicing frame of mind. When out on the way somewhere, sometimes we don't have much choice.

My experience in a flight of six flying home from a week in the Idaho back country is similar to John's. We flew into Jackpot, NV for our final leg of the day. It was evening and the Rans among us was getting short of fuel, so it was a must stop. No AWAS so we estimated wind speed from the sock - low teens from about left 90°. The Rans, an S-6, was the only tricycle in the group. All six of us made it onto the ground without damage, but once on the ground we were unanimous in our thinking that we should have landed on the taxiway running into the wind. Actual wind, we found was in the 20s. As John mentioned, it was difficult exiting the airplanes - as only one or two of us had parking brakes. This single experience is why I do have them on my new Model IV.

One more thought. I certainly don't claim to be an expert pilot. Thinking about the experience I attribute my successful landing to something I did based on a discussion in one of the old Kitfox Email Lists. The discussion went something like this. Since the side of the round cowl on the early Kitfoxes tapers inward toward the prop, we are in a crab if the left side of the cowl is parallel to our perceived direction of flight. The solution is to put some fine line masking tape on the windshield positioned so when seated in the average flying posture, the line is vertical with the wings level and exactly indicates the long axis of the airplane in reference to a spot on the horizon.

How I think it helped me: When on final, I kept the vertical line in the visual center of the opposite end of the runway. As I drifted, I increased the bank angle to increase side slip to keep the line centered. As the winds shifted, I was able to recognize it immediately and adjust the bank angle to maintain the direction of flight.

I have landed with wind speeds around 45 mph gusts quartering the runway, in a tail dragger, get the mains on the ground, power on stick forward, use your brakes and rudder to keep it straight, bleed off power holding the tail up in flight atitude, watching both visual ground speed and indicated speed, once your ground speed is almost to a crawl, slowly let the tail down, without crossed controls, at the chance a wing begins to lift fix it with flaperon and rudder, be ready to go full power if a gust lifts you, but hold enough power that you get authority from the prop blast, as soon as you can get on the leeward side of a building/hangar , anything that will break the wind for you.
Once in florida it was blowing straight down the runway at 40 plus minus, 2 guys in a pick up rode out and actually held the right wing down when we turned 90 degrees to the wind to get off the runway.

I use as an upper limit 20G25 with not more that 15 cross, I have practiced in these conditions and it felt like a good guideline for me.